The RAV-4 PHEV Topic

LeftieBiker said:

My only question at this point is "Heated steering wheel?" I know it has a heat pump.

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Me, too. I hope they don't require a $2500 "winter package" for that.

What really bugs me is that GM could have done this four years ago and had the market to themselves until now, if in 2015 they'd just introduced a Voltec AWD CUV that almost everyone on EV forums had been asking them to build. Instead, the Volt limped along before being cancelled. Gaah!

Not quite to themselves, there is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV as well.

Titanium48 said:

Not quite to themselves, there is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV as well.

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Lately the Crosstrek HEV as well, but the Outlander gets lousy MPG, and the Crosstrek gives up too much cargo space and has a sub-20 mile AER. It's the combination of a good AER, good MPG and (we assume) good cargo/pax space at what we hope will be a reasonable price for the RAV4 that's the big deal. I would have been happy with a 2016 Voltec-powered compact AWD CUV with only half the Gen 2 Volt's battery/53 mile AER, if necessary to keep the price/weight down and the volume/MPG up, although many people wanted the full battery and were willing to pay for it. The wishes for some such vehicle from GM were legion. Instead, they offered the Gen 2 Volt at a time when the customer shift to C/SUVs had already been underway for several years.

I also don't understand why GM has never tried to sell a "Voltequinox", and I agree about the issues with the Outlander. Another Outlander problem I have seen in reviews from Europe (where the tow rating is 1500 kg) relates to the nature of the Mitsubishi hybrid drivetrain - it can operate in serial mode at low or medium speeds or parallel mode at highway speed. The problem is that parallel mode is a fixed ratio so the ICE cannot generate maximum power. It works fine when just cruising the highway, but when attempting to tow something the batteries get drained until it switches to serial mode, at which point there is no reserve left so you are limited to the output of the ICE minus the losses in the rotation-electric-rotation double conversion. IIRC, the voltec drivetrain operates the same way so I would expect the same problem. If Toyota's drivetrain can allow maximum ICE output over a wide range of speeds, they could have a winner.

Leftie, you might want to change the topic title.

ABG:

2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime comes in under $40K, with over 300 hp

The performance hybrid goes on sale this summer

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https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/29/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-pricing/

The 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime SE will ring the till at $39,220 (including a $1,120 destination charge) when it goes on sale this summer, Toyota announced Friday.

So far, hybrid variants of smaller mainstream two-row crossovers have been focused entirely on efficiency; even Toyota's own RAV4 Hybrid is rated at 41 mpg city, 38 mpg highway and 40 combined on the strength of its 219-horsepower conventional hybrid drive system.

While Toyota insists the RAV4 Prime will be plenty efficient, squeezing the most out of a drop of fuel is not its top priority. Its plug-in hybrid system produces a total system output of 302 horsepower, making it the most powerful compact SUV from a non-luxury brand. Toyota says it'll also go from 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds (down from an earlier estimate of 5.8), which should be in contention for quickest alongside the high-output 2020 Ford Escape.

Toyota says the EPA has rated the RAV4 Prime at 94 MPGe. Precise city and highway figures have not yet been provided. For context, the company's own Prius Prime — rated at 133 MPGe — achieves 55 mpg in the city, 53 mpg on the highway and 54 mpg combined. . . .

Toyota says the RAV4 Prime's battery is good for 42 miles of pure electric driving — up from a previous estimate of 39 miles.

Toyota will offer the RAV4 Prime in two flavors: SE (the base model) and XSE. Standard equipment on the SE will include heated front seats, a leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob, a power liftgate, and an 8-inch touchscreen infotainment system with Android Auto, Apple CarPlay and Amazon Alexa integration. The XSE ($42,545 before options) will include a 9-inch touchscreen, upgraded audio, wireless device charging, a moonroof and a fancy two-tone exterior paint scheme, among other features. . . .

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Tempting, depending on Hwy MPG (I'd really like at least 40) & cargo space/spare tire carriage. Still a bit pricy and a little too big for me, but I'll definitely check it out when it arrives.

94 MPGe is pretty efficient.

I really wish Toyota would stop pushing the power and 0-60, only going to make it harder for someone(like me) to get one, fighting with the masses who may not give a rip about the MPG etc. and only want it for it's power
I too would like 40mpg hwy, but with the 40+ EV range and decent 36 hwy, I'm really interested. Sure it wouldn't get the 50+ MPG hwy that something like a Prius Prime would get, but its city EV range trounces the Prius's upper 20s.
I recently looked at the Mitsubishi Highlander(correction Outlander) PHEV but couldn't get over the dated design, lower hwy mpg and lowish EV range. I really want to replace our older Prius and one Leaf with a PHEV preferably SUV(higher ride height, better ground clearance, AWD) to save on insurance and tab fees. Unfortunately, I'm thinking the RAV4 Prime won't really be available to me(at a price not more than sticker) for a couple of years and I'd really like to do something sooner......

I went through a similar thought process, but luckily for me all we really need now is a 200 mile EV and a second car, preferably an EV. The PIP still works fine as an EV for in-town errands in milder weather, so my plan is to get an ePlus and keep the PIP as that backup car.

jjeff, I feel the same about the power/accel, but if it means more people will buy it, that's good. I remain more concerned about whether or not it has spare tire stowage and a normal height load floor, i.e. not like the Prius Prime. We'll see.

BTW, presumably you meant the Outlander, not Highlander. Mixing corporations there! :lol:

GRA said:

jjeff, I feel the same about the power/accel, but if it means more people will buy it, that's good. I remain more concerned about whether or not it has spare tire stowage and a normal height load floor, i.e. not like the Prius Prime. We'll see.

BTW, presumably you meant the Outlander, not Highlander. Mixing corporations there! :lol:

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Corrected, yes sorry Outlander
Apparently the rest of the world?? has a new Outlander while N. America trudges on with the old design. It took forever for North America Mitsubishi to get us the PHEV Outlander and by the time they did it was basically outdated :roll:

GCR:

Prime: 42-mile plug-in could cost less than RAV4 Hybrid

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https://www.greencarreports.com/new...mile-plug-in-could-cost-less-than-rav4-hybrid


Just for Leftie:

. . . XSE versions of the Prime start at $42,545 and get a two-toned roof and black machined-alloy wheels, plus paddle shifters, Qi wireless charging, ambient inside lighting, and exterior LED accents. . . .

Separately on the XSE, a Weather Package adds a heated steering wheel, heated rear outboard seats, and rain-sensing wipers with a wiper de-icer for $815, while a $2,435 Weather and Audio Package adds to that JBL premium audio, three years of dynamic navigation, and one year of Destination Assist.

Fully optioned XSE models will include the $5,760 Weather with Audio and Premium Package, piling on the aforementioned upgrades plus a 120V AC power outlet in the cargo area, a panoramic moonroof, hands-free “kick” power-hatch actuation, heated-and-ventilated front seats, parking assist, a head-up display, and adaptive front headlights.

That puts the grand-total cost of a loaded XSE at $49,305—before including any additional a la carte options. . . .

There’s still more information to come regarding the Prime. Toyota hasn’t yet released charging times; EPA fuel economy and range ratings aren’t out yet; and the official battery capacity remains under wraps. A 3-kw onboard charger is standard on both the SE and XSE, but in order to get an upgraded 6.6-kw charger—and top charging times during dinner or shopping—it appears you need to get the top-optioned XSE. . . .

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So as usual, to get stuff you want you've got to take a bunch of expensive crap you don't. A PHEV can certainly live without the faster charger, and I'd opt for the SE except that I want to be able to control Regen, preferably with paddles. That'd apparently cost me an extra $3.3k for the XSE - Aaughhhhh!

IEVS:

Toyota Reveals Pricing For 2021 RAV4 Prime Plug-In Hybrid

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https://insideevs.com/news/426107/toyota-price-2021-rav4-prime/


This article has more details on options, including the following:

The HV battery is covered for 10 years/150,000 miles, whichever comes first, and is transferrable across ownership.

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That sounds like a defects warranty rather than a capacity one, although a capacity warranty is less critical with a PHEV.

Then there's this, for the SE:

The available Weather & Moonroof Package (+$1,665 upgrade) is chock-full with upgrades like a heated steering wheel, heated rear outboard seats and rain-sensing windshield wipers with de-icer function, for added convenience. . . .

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So you can get a RAV-4 Prime with cloth seats and heated steering wheel? That would be nice, although it's unlikely we'd get one after our experience with the engine on our PIP developing serious issues.

I'm just fine with the base model and would prefer cloth seats but the seats really need to be heated(prefer in the rear also) and I'd pay extra for the heated steering wheel. I'd REALLY like something faster than a measly 3kw charger and would pay for it. I DON'T want a sunroof but wouldn't mind the paddle shifters, especially if they can control regen.
$40k is kind of my pricepoint but guess I could go higher if it would mean getting the things I want. Now I assume?? all models will have a heat pump heater? kind of a must too but I suppose I could get by without it, but wouldn't like too. The Prius Prime has a heatpump and assume the RAV4 would also.....
Of course this all hinges on something with decent seats(no Volt or Bolt seats need apply) and enough leg room. I despise a cramped feeling cabin with no room for my knees, again like the Volt, the Bolt was OK.

edit:
Well after reading GRA's links some more(thanks GRA!) it looks like to get the upgraded 6kw charger must purchase the top of the top of the line model, no thanks!
To get the paddle shifters one must get the upgraded XSE which forces you to get the sunroof(or as they call it the moon roof) again no thanks.
All models include a heat pump heater! nice.
To get a heated steering wheel and rear heated seats on the base model one must get a sunroof! again no thanks and this really sucks!
Unless I missed it?? I see no mention of leather on any models or trim options......I know when we got our Prius back in '07 Leather was only available in the top top trim model so skipping it was no problem.
I guess to not get the damn sunroof I'll have to forgo heated rear seats and steering wheel not to mention paddle shifters and the 6kw charger, F*ing Toyota! And to think my first Leaf was a base model with only the charger package and I got EVERYTHING I wanted but nothing I didn't....At least Nissan got that right.
Still interested but not too happy about the options.

We seem to be on much the same page as to what we do and don't want. I could live without rear-heated seats as there's so rarely anyone in them, and while a heated steering wheel would be nice it's not a necessity, nor do I want a sunroof. If I could pay for a faster charger separately I'd take it, but I'm not about to buy thousands of dollars of unwanted crap to get one in a PHEV, which has much faster "charging" available everywhere.

What I want is an SE with regen on paddles, but can't get it. Also cloth seats, although I can always put covers on vinyl. Good, preferably adjustable lumbar support's critical, although I'd happily do without power seats.

I guess to not get the damn sunroof I'll have to forgo heated rear seats and steering wheel not to mention paddle shifters and the 6kw charger, F*ing Toyota!

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Unless you need the extra headroom that is eaten up by a sunroof, don't forgo the heated sears and wheel to avoid the sunroof. They do usually come with removable ceiling panels to hide them.

LeftieBiker said:

I guess to not get the damn sunroof I'll have to forgo heated rear seats and steering wheel not to mention paddle shifters and the 6kw charger, F*ing Toyota!

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Unless you need the extra headroom that is eaten up by a sunroof, don't forgo the heated sears and wheel to avoid the sunroof. They do usually come with removable ceiling panels to hide them.

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Headroom is only part of the issue, although an important one for many incl. me. There's also the possibility of damage (hail, things falling off trees etc.) or malfunction and repair costs, and leakage issues over the long term through deteriorating seals.

I don't know anyone who spends much time in a car looking up at an angle more than 10 deg. or so, so why pay extra for something that has so many negatives and almost no positives? If I want an open-air feeling in a car, nothing beats a convertible - BTDT. Otherwise my technique is to pull over and step out of the car.

LeftieBiker said:

I guess to not get the damn sunroof I'll have to forgo heated rear seats and steering wheel not to mention paddle shifters and the 6kw charger, F*ing Toyota!

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Unless you need the extra headroom that is eaten up by a sunroof, don't forgo the heated sears and wheel to avoid the sunroof. They do usually come with removable ceiling panels to hide them.

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I have a quite tall torso so headroom is quite important. It might not be an issue with the Rav4 even with a moonroof so I'll probably have to sit in one, I know it was on smaller sedans I sat in some years back.
My first car had a sunroof, a nice manual crank Audi 100LS(used) I liked it could be operated without turning on the car and on that car anyway I had no issues with headroom. I also added a manual pop-up sunroof to a car after that, a 67' Dodge Dart with the 225 slant-six, that sunroof wasn't as nice as the Audi's as to open it totally up it had to be removed(pretty easy) otherwise the rear just popped up, again no issue with headroom on the Dart, it was wide open.
What I don't like about the Rav4 options is your basically forced to get the sunroof unless you want the base model. People probably feel this way about Leather seats on some brands like Nissan, to get anything but the base you are forced to get leather. I personally prefer cloth but could live with leather just don't like how it's hot in the summer and cold in the winter, at least Toyota doesn't seem to force you to get leather to get other options.

My Civic Si had a non-optional pop-up sunroof. I thought it was leaking for a while, but it turned to to be the windshield(?) and the leak was never successfully fixed. I garaged the car. I used it once in a while, but would have been happy without it.