DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2467
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:04 pm

Most of us with Plus models never hit the thermal limitations, as it usually required driving more than 2 full charges in a day with minimal breaks, or over 400 miles. I have done over 500 (with a visit with a friend in the middle) without hitting any throttling.

It does appear that the new Leaf battery (+) deals with heat better, but that said, you can throttle if doing extended driving in hot weather).
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

lorenfb
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:00 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:04 pm
It does appear that the new Leaf battery (+) deals with heat better,
Anecdotal! You can still "cook" the Leaf battery on a hot day (>80F) driving at high speeds. QC charging the Leaf is not its only heat related problem,
whether the Leaf2 has a 40kWh or a 60kWh battery.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:10 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:00 pm
Anecdotal! You can still "cook" the Leaf battery on a hot day (>80F) driving at high speeds. QC charging the Leaf is not its only heat related problem,
whether the Leaf2 has a 40kWh or a 60kWh battery.
Anything is possible, but in the case it is unlikely, and the lack of anecdotal reports from owners world-wide seems to support that.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2872
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:14 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:00 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:04 pm
It does appear that the new Leaf battery (+) deals with heat better,
Anecdotal! You can still "cook" the Leaf battery on a hot day (>80F) driving at high speeds. QC charging the Leaf is not its only heat related problem,
whether the Leaf2 has a 40kWh or a 60kWh battery.
I am not sure what you mean--QC will heat the battery, but air flow around the battery compartment during highway driving actually cools the battery (2011, 2015, and 2019 all exhibited this when monitoring the battery temperature with Leaf Spy). It is rare to see the temperature bar display drop from highway driving unless the battery is really hot after QC, but it is possible to have enough cooling to see the temperature display in the dash drop. During the summer, I usually see battery temperature (as indicated by Leaf Spy) increase during city driving after getting off the freeway and cool down slightly if I get back on the freeway.

FWIW, the 2019 battery seems to run cooler than the 2015 did when new and the 2015 ran cooler than the 2011 battery in my climate.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2467
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:20 am

GerryAZ are you still seeing 97% SOH?
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15450
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:00 am

lorenfb wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:00 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:04 pm
It does appear that the new Leaf battery (+) deals with heat better,
Anecdotal! You can still "cook" the Leaf battery on a hot day (>80F) driving at high speeds. QC charging the Leaf is not its only heat related problem,
whether the Leaf2 has a 40kWh or a 60kWh battery.
Work at it hard enough and I am sure you can figure out a way to get it done.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:50 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:14 pm

I am not sure what you mean--QC will heat the battery, but air flow around the battery compartment during highway driving actually cools the battery
You're joking, right? Describe the air flow around the battery. The battery is basically thermally isolated from ambient which results
in its having a long thermal constant, i.e. to heat-up or cool down from ambient effects. Since high speed driving develops heat quickly
from the I^2*R heating from the motor current, the battery will heat up fairly quickly as in QCing. With regard to QCing, do you fail to
understand the I^2 * R heating effect from a high charging current that affects battery degradation, and why "throttling" occurs?
So given the fairly long thermal time constant for cooling, the Leaf battery "cooks" the result of excessive QCing/high speed driving,
versus a BEV with TMS.
GerryAZ wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:14 pm
It is rare to see the temperature bar display drop from highway driving unless the battery is really hot after QC, but it is possible to have enough cooling to see the temperature display in the dash drop. During the summer, I usually see battery temperature (as indicated by Leaf Spy) increase during city driving after getting off the freeway and cool down slightly if I get back on the freeway.
And what's the conclusion, if there's any?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2872
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:55 pm

lorenfb wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:50 am
GerryAZ wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:14 pm

I am not sure what you mean--QC will heat the battery, but air flow around the battery compartment during highway driving actually cools the battery
You're joking, right? Describe the air flow around the battery. The battery is basically thermally isolated from ambient which results
in its having a long thermal constant, i.e. to heat-up or cool down from ambient effects. Since high speed driving develops heat quickly
from the I^2*R heating from the motor current, the battery will heat up fairly quickly as in QCing. With regard to QCing, do you fail to
understand the I^2 * R heating effect from a high charging current that affects battery degradation, and why "throttling" occurs?
So given the fairly long thermal time constant for cooling, the Leaf battery "cooks" the result of excessive QCing/high speed driving,
versus a BEV with TMS.
I am serious--air flow over the battery case at highway speeds will dissipate some of the heat and reduce the temperature displayed by Leaf Spy if the battery is significantly hotter than ambient (such as from QC). Since power required to maintain highway speed is much less than QC charging, the discharge current is not high and the internal I^2*R losses (and hence heat generated) are low. The internal resistance of new (not significantly degraded) LEAF batteries is quite low. The internal resistance increases as the batteries deteriorate so 8-capacity-bar batteries will generate more heat during discharge from highway driving (and especially from QC charging) than 12-bar batteries, but the internal resistance of even an 8-bar battery is still relatively low.

If the battery is cool, then highway driving will increase battery temperature until it reaches an equilibrium temperature enough higher than ambient to cause heat transfer through the thermal resistance(s) between the cells and ambient equal to the heat generated internally. The battery cells together make a large thermal mass so that large mass heats and cools slowly, but the heat transfer is dependent upon the temperature differential between the cells and ambient. In normal day-to-day driving, the battery will cool while the car is parked overnight, but battery temperature will ratchet up during a long trip with multiple QC's because more heat is generated during each QC than dissipated by driving between QC's.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16424
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:39 pm

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that with the Gen I Leaf, at least, highway driving after heating the battery with a QC will cool the battery somewhat. The airflow space present above the battery in the Gen I is essentially nonexistent above the battery in the 40+kwh cars, but that still leaves the underside to dissipate heat to the air stream.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15450
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 Leaf battery overheating

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:26 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:39 pm
There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that with the Gen I Leaf, at least, highway driving after heating the battery with a QC will cool the battery somewhat. The airflow space present above the battery in the Gen I is essentially nonexistent above the battery in the 40+kwh cars, but that still leaves the underside to dissipate heat to the air stream.
Maybe. I found that to be rather inconsistent. The issue is cooler weather usually means wetter roads, less efficiency, higher power output.

But I have also noticed a difference even between the 40 and 62 kwh packs. The Plus packs simply stay cooler. Whether the extra cell count makes that much of a difference or that some sort of ventilation has been added or simply what was "high" power in smaller packs is simply not in the larger packs.

Guessing its a combination of all those things. FYI; a very reputable dealer in the Seattle area let it slip that the plus packs had cooling. When asked for details he clammed up. He is privy to considerably more information than most LEAF salesmen due to his status in the company ( 3X NA #1 LEAF sales) So a slip of the tongue?

Knowing him personally, I would find it hard to believe he made the comment to generate sales.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 16,686 mi, 91.51% SOH
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