Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

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The 2019 S Plus we picked up today (build date 9/19) for our teenagers after sitting on the lot for 8 or so months had a SOH of 98.7% and he 97.69%. Thankfully they kept it at 71% charge sitting on the lot and not fully charged. I will do some readings in the next couple weeks, but extrapolated from the 548 GIDs, it puts full Gids at about 750-755.

I do have to say that the S Plus is more efficient on the highway than the SV Plus. 60F outside, and I was at A solid 4.8 miles per kilowatt on a 20 mile north south loop at 53-57 mph (in the mile off of the highway post it jumped to 5.1). The SV I don’t think could do more than 4.5-4.6 max in the same conditions. The car feels lighter..but could just be because of smaller wheels. It makes me want to put 15” wheels on both when the tires are up for replacement in a few years.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
The 2019 S Plus we picked up today (build date 9/19) for our teenagers after sitting on the lot for 8 or so months had a SOH of 98.7% and he 97.69%. Thankfully they kept it at 71% charge sitting on the lot and not fully charged. I will do some readings in the next couple weeks, but extrapolated from the 548 GIDs, it puts full Gids at about 750-755.

I do have to say that the S Plus is more efficient on the highway than the SV Plus. 60F outside, and I was at A solid 4.8 miles per kilowatt on a 20 mile north south loop at 53-57 mph (in the mile off of the highway post it jumped to 5.1). The SV I don’t think could do more than 4.5-4.6 max in the same conditions. The car feels lighter..but could just be because of smaller wheels. It makes me want to put 15” wheels on both when the tires are up for replacement in a few years.

Just put 17-inch Ecopias on the SV when the OEM Michelins wear out. Congratulations on the new car.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
I like that idea. The 16 inch rims look nearly as nice to me. It’s true the 16” rims give you a solid 5% efficiency, so poof right back to new range.

Realize the S Plus has solid wheels over the wheel covers the S has so I didn't see a need or desire to want SV wheels. And yes, smaller wheels are more efficient.

During 2010 Prius reveal at the Detroit Auto Show we had a special preview invite from Toyota and got a glance at the engineer's notebook showing a 2 mpg difference between wheel sizes
 
When I pulled the car off the lot in my test drive of the car, I chriped the wheels. Something I have never been able to do in the SV.

I really wish, they would make the 16" wheels standard at all levels and let you pay to upgrade. I don't really feel like paying ...?? $500 or something to get new smaller rims and tires on our SV as range isn't really an issue. I just like the idea of being more efficient.

Let's see how the SOH and Hx hold up on this car.
 
A little late to this thread:
2019 SV Plus purchased 1/29/20

6/15/20 1457 miles. AHR=169.79. SOH=96.25 HX=103.12 ( A month and 500 miles ago SOH was 98.78, AHR was 170.72, and HX was 100.94). I'm getting 4.5 m/kwh. I don't drive the car every day. Most trips are short - less than 20 miles. I never use air conditioning. The Florida heat is murder on the 12V battery when all you do is short trips.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
When I pulled the car off the lot in my test drive of the car, I chriped the wheels. Something I have never been able to do in the SV.

I really wish, they would make the 16" wheels standard at all levels and let you pay to upgrade. I don't really feel like paying ...?? $500 or something to get new smaller rims and tires on our SV as range isn't really an issue. I just like the idea of being more efficient.

Let's see how the SOH and Hx hold up on this car.

I doubt there is a noticeable difference in efficiency with equal tires. The Ecopias are lower rolling resistance than the Michelins so that combined with the less accurate odometer/speedometer will likely yield higher dashboard efficiency numbers for the S. The 17-inch OEM Michelins are easy to spin when accelerating and turning, but the rubber is so hard that they don't make much noise. If you want to improve the efficiency of the SV, replace the Michelins with Ecopias and run the Ecopias at 44 psi cold for best tread life and wet braking traction.
 
The Incredible Shinking SOH (update June 17)
2020 SL plus built 12/19
delivered Feb 27 2020
Initial SOH  99.36   Hx  98.18   AHr  175.27
March 29    99.31          98.48
April 30       99.21          99.28
May 31        99.08          99.89
June 2         98.65         
June 5         98.15          99.94
June 6         97.37          99.89    AHr  171.76
June 7         97.09         
June 8         97.02 
June 10       96.66          99.92    AHr  170.51
June 11       96.23         
June 12       95.95          99.92    AHr  168.89
June 13       95.59
June 14       95.38          99.92    AHr  168.25
June 15       95.24          99.92    AHr  168.00
June 16 95.02 99.92 AHr 167.62
June 17 SOH 94.60 100.03 AHr 166.87

ODO 1881

Except for SOC of 90% at dealership on pickup
Leaf has always been charged to less than 80%
and remained above 30% so far.
It took more than 5 months to show a significant drop
but now...this seems to be a wowser.
Maybe a bms algorithm fault?  Will the slide ever stop?
Any thoughts on what might be happening?
I am thinking of charging to 100% to balance cells. I do not
expect going to the dealership is likely to help.
 
I am not convinced keeping the car in the 30-70% zone is best for keeping the SOH high. Please keep sending updates. If it doesn't in the 94's, I have not idea.

I wonder if in 2020, they updated the algorithm to just take the full buffer at the 6 month mark.

I found the build date sheet in my new 2019 S+ yesterday hidden away. September 26th, so I should be due for its next rebalance in 9 days. Let's see what happens.
 
I am not convinced keeping the car in the 30-70% zone is best for keeping the SOH high.

Maybe not, but it should still be best for battery longevity. If the BMS's reporting of SOH really isn't always the same as actual battery capacity, then treating the battery well may give you a worse SOH than treating it badly...
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
I am not convinced keeping the car in the 30-70% zone is best for keeping the SOH high. Please keep sending updates. If it doesn't in the 94's, I have not idea.

I wonder if in 2020, they updated the algorithm to just take the full buffer at the 6 month mark.

I found the build date sheet in my new 2019 S+ yesterday hidden away. September 26th, so I should be due for its next rebalance in 9 days. Let's see what happens.

I am shocked we continuously revisit this myth. Realize that its a battle between the established scientific community verses a single "seemingly" outlier.

The level we "should" be charging to follows ONE simple rule; Charge to the level that covers your needs.

Be it range plus heat plus a buffer; WHATEVER!

What kills us is so many people charging to full because that is all Nissan provides us.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Good point. I would wish we could draw a line between our charging "discipline" and our battery SOH over time.

Funny you should mention that; I am contemplating charting my SOC but other than manually opening each LS log file and recording it, I don't have any easy way of doing that. It would appear to be just another data point I should have collected.

I have been very good at not going too high having only a few times over 70% and 3 full (or near) full charges but the lower end I have not been as diligent.

I began to realize I am not looking at SOC but range (old habits die hard) and still have that overwhelming sense of complacency when realizing I have more than a "few miles" of buffer. So my charge ups were mostly due to convenience and not SOC concerns which means I would spend more than 24 hours below 20% simply because that was still more than enough to cover my daily needs.

I am in SOC rehab working my issues and have made it a goal to not stray below 25% unless on a road trip.
 
From a Dash SOC perspective, I did the same with the SV+, as even at 20%, I would have 60ish miles, which was 80% on the 2013 Leaf at the time we traded it, so for experienced Leaf drivers...far from any range anxiety.

I have been trying to keep the car between 30ish-85%. Because I charge at night on the timer, I let it run for 4 1/2 hours which usually puts be a little bit above the 80% mark. We don't drive much these days, so its sometimes a week or two between charges. I doubt it will slow are SoH decline to the low 90s, given the data on this board.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
From a Dash SOC perspective, I did the same with the SV+, as even at 20%, I would have 60ish miles, which was 80% on the 2013 Leaf at the time we traded it, so for experienced Leaf drivers...far from any range anxiety.

I have been trying to keep the car between 30ish-85%. Because I charge at night on the timer, I let it run for 4 1/2 hours which usually puts be a little bit above the 80% mark. We don't drive much these days, so its sometimes a week or two between charges. I doubt it will slow are SoH decline to the low 90s, given the data on this board.

Shorten your timer and charge more often. We "should" charge daily but I don't either.

I have timer set to start charge at 4 am. I get up for work at 5:40 so sometimes I unplug then or sometimes its not till 7 when I leave. Its all depending on where the SOC was when parked for the night. So at beginning of week, I usually charge first two days of the week, first day unplugging at 7 then unplugging at 5:40 the next day and that covers my 4 days.

On my 3 days off during Winter I frequently will plug in one day for 2-3 hours. Summer is a completely different story with a lot more driving so charging is not really definable.

Eventually I will likely set it up to charge every day for at least an hour or so. In Winter will probably skip a day or two per week but Summer should be fairly easy to maintain a daily regimen.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Do batteries suffer atrophy if charge cycles are spread out too far?

You aren't looking at it the right way.

Suppose you charge every 3 days to 100% using 25% per day and recharging when it drops to 25%. Realizing that an SOC of around 50% is best you are only around that SOC once every 3 days. So you are much better off charging from 37.5% to 62.5% daily which maximizes your time in the "optimal" zone.

Another thing you should look at is charge cycle graphs at Battery U or some place similar. The best longevity comes with higher counts of shallow cycles. IOW you will fare better charging the middle 30% of your pack daily over charging the middle 60% of your pack every other day. In fact, the smaller the charges, the better the results.

Now this sounds fine but doing this on a 24 kwh pack would be literally insane. 30% isn't enough. If you are lucky enough and have the right commute length and charging at work, maybe but for the rest of us? No way.

But now you have well over 200 miles of range at your disposal. How you use it is up to you. Now, if I thought there was some sort of hurdle that needed to be surmounted when charging daily then we would have a question of benefit verses the compromise of all that extra work. But we don't so its a tiny bit of extra effort for what could very well be a significant amount of upside.
 
Do batteries suffer atrophy if charge cycles are spread out too far?

You aren't looking at it the right way.

I believe that Doug is asking if there is something like the surface charge you can get on lead-acid plates that occurs with lithium packs. As I understand it, nothing that detrimental. There may be a little temporary capacity loss that returns when the pack gets 'exercised' by fast charging or driving, but as long as the SOC is in the Sweet Zone there is no harm done.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Do batteries suffer atrophy if charge cycles are spread out too far?

You aren't looking at it the right way.

I believe that Doug is asking if there is something like the surface charge you can get on lead-acid plates that occurs with lithium packs. As I understand it, nothing that detrimental. There may be a little temporary capacity loss that returns when the pack gets 'exercised' by fast charging or driving, but as long as the SOC is in the Sweet Zone there is no harm done.

I have to agree. People with very large numbers of DC's and miles and good battery health do so mostly because that much driving forces one to be in the middle zone frequently because

1) Charging to full simply takes too long so its usually done once a day at home overnight.

2) Driving to too low an SOC is risky if not in an area with an abundance of charging options.

This brings up an interesting question of how far can one's commute be and still have a good chance at very good battery longevity?

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