The RAV-4 PHEV Topic
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GRA
Well-known member
GCR:
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ive-review-the-way-a-plug-in-hybrid-should-be
I'm not thrilled by the description of the way regen works, esp. in Hybrid mode, but I expect Toyota will sell every one they make (only 20k annual prod. planned, which is ludicrous) and I'll definitely test drive one.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ive-review-the-way-a-plug-in-hybrid-should-be
I'm not thrilled by the description of the way regen works, esp. in Hybrid mode, but I expect Toyota will sell every one they make (only 20k annual prod. planned, which is ludicrous) and I'll definitely test drive one.
We went to our local Toyota dealership today, mainly to drive a Hybrid Rav-4 to see if we even liked how the Rav-4 sat as the Prime isn't available yet. When I asked about the Prime they were quite pessimistic about it, availability that is. I was told they currently have 5 people in line but they said the latest they've heard was late 2021 for availability! and even then they said since we aren't a CAFE state they were only likely to see one or two a year 
Now I know part of the doom and gloom may have been because they currently have hybrids and no Primes but still it was kind of disappointing. On the positive side, we really liked how the Rav4 sat and drove and appreciated the higher seating position(from the ground) and increased storage over something like our Leaf, we also liked the idea of AWD and increased ground clearance in snowy MN.
While at the dealership we took advantage to check out a Prius Prime, unfortunately, Limited trim. While it had definite improvements over our '07, it also had some things I wasn't so impressed with. Cargo area was much smaller than our Prius due to the somewhat small battery :roll: something we really liked about our '07, cabin space also seemed a bit smaller, backseat space and a larger front console made it a bit more cramped all around but livable, cargo space was kind of a deal-breaker. We both liked the room and higher seating position of the Rav-4 so I'm really thinking our next new vehicle will be a proper SUV and I'm going to be pretty insistent on at least a PHEV. We both liked the Rav-4 better than the Mitsubishi Outlander we drove a couple of months ago which is too bad as they seem plentiful even in our state and everyone seems to be willing to deal, something I'd not expect with the Rav-4 Prime for many years to come, in fact I'd feel happy to find one for even list for again several years.
Now I know part of the doom and gloom may have been because they currently have hybrids and no Primes but still it was kind of disappointing. On the positive side, we really liked how the Rav4 sat and drove and appreciated the higher seating position(from the ground) and increased storage over something like our Leaf, we also liked the idea of AWD and increased ground clearance in snowy MN.While at the dealership we took advantage to check out a Prius Prime, unfortunately, Limited trim. While it had definite improvements over our '07, it also had some things I wasn't so impressed with. Cargo area was much smaller than our Prius due to the somewhat small battery :roll: something we really liked about our '07, cabin space also seemed a bit smaller, backseat space and a larger front console made it a bit more cramped all around but livable, cargo space was kind of a deal-breaker. We both liked the room and higher seating position of the Rav-4 so I'm really thinking our next new vehicle will be a proper SUV and I'm going to be pretty insistent on at least a PHEV. We both liked the Rav-4 better than the Mitsubishi Outlander we drove a couple of months ago which is too bad as they seem plentiful even in our state and everyone seems to be willing to deal, something I'd not expect with the Rav-4 Prime for many years to come, in fact I'd feel happy to find one for even list for again several years.
What is the AER range of the hybrid?
The Hybrid has a 14.5g tank and EPA is 41/38 and 40 combined, so for a strictly road trip at 38mpg I'd figure 551 miles.LeftieBiker said:
I've read the PHEV will have a 42 mile EV range with the same 14.5g tank for a total 600-mile range rated. EPA mpg 40/36 38 combined. For strictly hwy mpg(36) I figure the prime at 564 miles not 600, even at the combined number of 38mpg I only get 593 miles total range for the Prime so I'm not sure how they come up with the 600......
Sorry. AER stand for "All-Electric Range." Our 2010 Prius II had an "EV" button that would give us maybe a mile of EV range, if you kept a light foot on the pedal. Does the hybrid have an EV mode for things like changing parking spaces or driving a few blocks without starting the ICE?
GRA
Well-known member
IEVS:
https://www.motor1.com/reviews/431633/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-suv-first-drive/
Confirms SE has cloth seats. Weather and Moonroof package ($1,665) would give Leftie the heated steering wheel he wants, along with some other stuff (heated rear seats, auto wipers, Moonroof) he may or may not.
https://www.motor1.com/reviews/431633/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-suv-first-drive/
Confirms SE has cloth seats. Weather and Moonroof package ($1,665) would give Leftie the heated steering wheel he wants, along with some other stuff (heated rear seats, auto wipers, Moonroof) he may or may not.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
It’s just too bad it wouldn’t arrive until 2022.
It's an interesting vehicle, but it isn't for us. Both my housemate and I will likely be getting new(er) cars in the next year or two, but she is completely off of Toyotas after discovering that the engine in hers isn't the bulletproof engineering wonder we thought it was, and she is actually considering a 40kwh Leaf to get away from ICE cars entirely. She also does not like SUVs. I don't want an ICE either, and will almost certainly get a 2020 or 2021 SV+.
It is nice to see that you will be able to get a RAV-4 Prime with cloth interior and heated seats and steering wheel, for (just barely) under $40k. Maybe all of the complaining I did to Toyota over the years in the PIP owner's group did some good.
It is nice to see that you will be able to get a RAV-4 Prime with cloth interior and heated seats and steering wheel, for (just barely) under $40k. Maybe all of the complaining I did to Toyota over the years in the PIP owner's group did some good.
cwerdna
Well-known member
You mean CARB state (California Air Resources Board)? CAFE is a national standard (https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy).jjeff said:I was told they currently have 5 people in line but they said the latest they've heard was late 2021 for availability! and even then they said since we aren't a CAFE state they were only likely to see one or two a year
It seems like https://insideevs.com/news/431767/suzuki-across-phev-announced/ might be related to why there's limited supply.
cwerdna said:You mean CARB state (California Air Resources Board)? CAFE is a national standard (https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy).jjeff said:I was told they currently have 5 people in line but they said the latest they've heard was late 2021 for availability! and even then they said since we aren't a CAFE state they were only likely to see one or two a year
Correct, CARB[/quote]
That would the vehicle we'd want, rather not have the moonroof but if it didn't interfere with my headroom I could live with it, unlike the vinal seats of the XSE we'd really not want. I'd also like the paddle shifters, vertical LED running lights, turn signals on the heated door mirrors and 6.6kwh charger but would be willing to live without those, none of which are available on the base SE.GRA said:
GRA
Well-known member
Base SE for me, although I'd want paddle shifters which are only on the XSE. Sigh. If only the Niro offered AWD.
GRA
Well-known member
GCR:
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ly-issue-toyota-rav4-prime-dealers-marking-up
And that takes it right out of contention for me.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ly-issue-toyota-rav4-prime-dealers-marking-up
And that takes it right out of contention for me.
The fact that some dealers, in some places, are marking it up?
cwerdna
Well-known member
If the supply for the US market is really as limited as it sounds (I've not been following closely), then many dealers may be marking it up for awhile if they're still able to unload them at those prices... And, it might be a case of MSRP being an "good" or ok deal until the supply situation is solved, like it was for 04 to 06 Prius. There was a huge supply/demand imbalance coupled w/supply-side constraints back then.GRA said:
You know you just want to buy a Bolt and get it over with by finally getting a BEV.
Used Bolts start out at pretty cheap: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=36274172&mkId=20053&page=1&perPage=20&prMx=30000&rd=99999&searchSource=SORT&sort=price-lowest&stkTypId=28881&zc=94556.GRA
Well-known member
A 2020 Bolt's a good deal, but like the Kona it's 8" - 12" too short to pass my stretch out to sleep test. I tried it when I test drove one. Oh, and no heat pump or AWD, which for a skier like me are other no-sale issues. Oh, and the QC speed is too slow, and the range is still too short. But I liked driving it.
To be marginally useful to me for a few years I need at least 300 EPA HWY, to allow for HVAC and a few years degradation. To be fairly useful I need 400 same, and to fully replace an ICE I need 4 hours @ 80, plus at least 1/2 hour reserve @ >= 70 while running all hotel loads, for at least 15 years, and as much under $40k as possible. Obviously, we're still some years away from achieving that.
To be marginally useful to me for a few years I need at least 300 EPA HWY, to allow for HVAC and a few years degradation. To be fairly useful I need 400 same, and to fully replace an ICE I need 4 hours @ 80, plus at least 1/2 hour reserve @ >= 70 while running all hotel loads, for at least 15 years, and as much under $40k as possible. Obviously, we're still some years away from achieving that.
Don't forget the Sun AND Moon roofs.
GRA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Not to mention heating of the steering wheel, shift lever, turn signals, door handles, window controls, radio and HVAC buttons, and glove compartment. There are people who won't buy a car without them. But it's their money and they know their needs and wants as well as I know my own, so who am I to criticize them, no matter how excessive or ridiculous their requirements seem to me?
Well I put my money where my mouth is.....put $500 down to be on the list for a 202x Rav-4 Prime. #10 on the list at my local Toyota dealer, god only knows where I'm on the list nation/worldwide! My sales guy luckily happened to be the go-to guy for the Prime and said I was his 4th he's written up but basically had a hand in all the dealer's orders. I ordered a SE(lower-trim model of two but still lots of features) and got the "cold weather" package including heated steering wheel and outboard rear seats). I asked him what people had been ordering and said mostly the upper trim some with all the packages, one other had ordered what I did. I'm guessing most everyone in my area will be ordering the cold weather package, if they are smart they will anyway. I was very happy they had a package with just the heated parts, originally I thought I'd be forced to get the moon roof to get the heat(at about a grand more). The sales guy really stressed it could be 2-3 years but I'm hoping sooner. It sounds like mine will be made in the US as Toyota is currently building out a new factory here, currently all are made in Japan. They had none to look at, in fact my sales guy hasn't even seen any himself, I'm guessing my first chance to really see one will be at my local Auto Show in April.....if they have one this year, it was canceled this year as they were everywhere else.
I've sat in and driven the Hybrid Rav-4 and really liked it, the Prime should only be better. Price was sticker(not above) and came in just under $40k before everything else, thinking it will be around $45k with taxes, tabs and such. The other car I was looking at was the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV that are plentiful around here(for sale and see the occasional one on the road) but my main issue with it was the Mitsubishi name and less than stellar ICE MPG, the Prime should be close to 40 on the road which is mainly where we'll be driving in on ICE, otherwise in town I plan on 99% EV use as with it's 40 mile range it should cover all but driving all the way across town.
Anyone know why the company that sponsors MNL hasn't made a Rav4 Prime site yet? They still only have the original '12 Rav4 EV site, you'd think now that people in CA?? actually are driving them that they'd make a forum for the new Prime, they have one for the Prius Prime.
The Rav4 Prime should replace our '13 S Leaf and '07 Prius, still probably hand on to our '12 SL for short in town use, need to sell my '04 Scion XB too, mostly just sits.
I've sat in and driven the Hybrid Rav-4 and really liked it, the Prime should only be better. Price was sticker(not above) and came in just under $40k before everything else, thinking it will be around $45k with taxes, tabs and such. The other car I was looking at was the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV that are plentiful around here(for sale and see the occasional one on the road) but my main issue with it was the Mitsubishi name and less than stellar ICE MPG, the Prime should be close to 40 on the road which is mainly where we'll be driving in on ICE, otherwise in town I plan on 99% EV use as with it's 40 mile range it should cover all but driving all the way across town.
Anyone know why the company that sponsors MNL hasn't made a Rav4 Prime site yet? They still only have the original '12 Rav4 EV site, you'd think now that people in CA?? actually are driving them that they'd make a forum for the new Prime, they have one for the Prius Prime.
The Rav4 Prime should replace our '13 S Leaf and '07 Prius, still probably hand on to our '12 SL for short in town use, need to sell my '04 Scion XB too, mostly just sits.
OrientExpress
Well-known member
I've been driving a '21 RAV4 Prime XSE for week or so on loan from Toyota, and it is a very nicely done SUV. The Yokohama tires it comes with are noisy, and it doesn't have auto-high-beams, but other than that it is trimmed with just about everything one would want. My observed fuel/energy efficiency is about 36 mpg with the battery depleted and 52 with the battery in the mix. For EV only driving we got about 62 miles out of it before the 2.5 L 4-cyl engine started going in, even though it's rated at 41 EV only miles. The 18.1 kWh battery can be heated or cooled as needed, and takes 2 hours to fully charge with the optional 6.6k Wh charger. The combined power output of both electric motors and the engine is 302 hp and it can accelerate 0-60 in under 6 seconds.
All in all it is a very versatile vehicle. The one that I'm driving costs a bit over $49.5K
Our LEAF is my wife's car and its lease will be up next summer, so the RAV4 Prime is high on her consideration list.
All in all it is a very versatile vehicle. The one that I'm driving costs a bit over $49.5K
Our LEAF is my wife's car and its lease will be up next summer, so the RAV4 Prime is high on her consideration list.