2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

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That is too funny. My neighbor has 2 of them, one for driving and one for souping up..he was happy when we bought a second Leaf Plus as he looked less fanatic as we now had twins too.

Dave, I was thinking about your 10% not being an accident comment. This might suggest that the BMS might gently return the buffer over a few years to give you the impression of minimal range loss. Beyond 5 years no one would remember or care as battery tech would move on.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
That is too funny. My neighbor has 2 of them, one for driving and one for souping up..he was happy when we bought a second Leaf Plus as he looked less fanatic as we now had twins too.

Dave, I was thinking about your 10% not being an accident comment. This might suggest that the BMS might gently return the buffer over a few years to give you the impression of minimal range loss. Beyond 5 years no one would remember or care as battery tech would move on.

Nope, its not a buffer its a hidden range. The GOM works a lot like a gas gauge. Gas up and the needle doesn't move for a long time. Needle hits E and you can still keep going. First low battery warning comes on at 3/16th of a charge. When did the gas light come on? same 3/16th.

Nothing but a bunch of gasoline engineers trying to do electric. :lol:
 
LeftieBiker said:
Nope, its not a buffer its a hidden range.

A distinction without a difference, in this case.

Buffer; capacity used to maintain original range. Buffer does not add to range nor is generally accessible by vehicle w/o degradation

Hidden Capacity; range that is available for use but not displayed or indicated by vehicle.
 
Its funny but you are right regarding similarity to gas gauge . I was referring though too the additional buffer the bms takes in the quarterly adjustments.

For the Leaf at 86%, what SOH do you think he is really at?
 
The reserved capacity does both things: it provides additional range below 'Empty' and it probably gets largely used up over the years to maintain the indicated capacity higher for longer. It's a dessert AND a floor wax. ;)
 
There has been a lot of discussion about "hidden" or "reserve" capacity over the years. My experience with 2011 and 2015 is that the entire capacity of the battery (that the LBC would allow) was useable when new and when degraded. The maximum charge was dictated by maximum cell voltage and deep discharge was dictated by minimum cell voltage (allowable levels did not change as battery deteriorated) so the entire capacity was useable, but one needed to be adventurous to use the lower limits. It is too soon to tell about the 2019, but I suspect it functions the same way with limits being dictated by minimum and maximum cell voltages (although allowable maximum voltage is higher and minimum may be lower). Since the 62 kWh battery has so much more capacity, the LBC (lithium battery controller, Nissan's name for the BMS or battery management system) can reserve or hide more of the overall capacity without unduly impacting apparent useable range so there is as much actual range left when the SOC on the dash goes to ---% as there was with the 24 kWh battery when the first low battery warning came in (49 GIDS) if the cells are reasonably well balanced.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The reserved capacity does both things: it provides additional range below 'Empty' and it probably gets largely used up over the years to maintain the indicated capacity higher for longer. It's a dessert AND a floor wax. ;)

True true and there is still the upward adjustments complicating the picture. We all know the pack will never gain any appreciable capacity. Once its gone, its gone. On my ZENN, I had lead acid batteries and there was this process that would "shock" the batteries to break loose some of the buildup on the plates which should allow more capacity but I never really saw any noticeable improvement but without ZENN Spy, it would have been tough to notice.

But that was one reason why I tracked the dash SOC against LEAF Spy from 100% to "_ _ _" I wish I would have done it when it was new but I plan to repeat the experiment when I lose another 5% SOH. Hopefully that will be many years from now.
 
My latest battery statistics as of 7/4/2020 (after full charge overnight):
L2 charging energy from wall=60.74 kWh
Miles driven=168.7 (dash) or 175.1 actual miles (odometer error is 3.8% with new tires)
Dash display=3.2 mi/kWh
Actual wall to wheels: 168.7/60.74=2.78 mi/kWh or 2.88 mi/kWh with odometer error factored in
AHr=170.35
SOH=96.57%
Hx=107.97%
V=400.11
Odometer=18,252
QC=6
L1/L2=129
Cell Voltages (min, avg, max)=4.164, 4.168, 4.184 V
Delta=20 mV
Battery Temperatures=106.7, 107.6, 106.5 degrees F
GIDS=711
Before charging:
AHr=170.37
SOH=96.58%
Hx=107.97%
V=324.42
L1/L2=128
Cell Voltages=3.341, 3.379, 3.410 V
Delta=69 mV
Battery Temperatures=102.7, 104.2, 105.1 degrees F
GIDS=46

Average miles driven per charge since new (includes charges by factory and dealers along with some testing of timers and short test charges from portable generators):
18,252/(6+128)=136.2 average miles/charge (not including odometer error)

Fewer miles driven per day and fewer freeway miles since early March are apparently causing the LEAF Spy numbers to drop a little faster than before. It will be interesting to see the next 90-day adjustment (should be about 7/20) and also the next full discharge test (about 8/10) after a full year of Phoenix heat.
 
It sounds like we need to keep the car/battery at 100F and heavily on the road to keep our batteries healthy. The newer chemistry certainly doesn't seems to mind the heat like the eariler car.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
It sounds like we need to keep the car/battery at 100F and heavily on the road to keep our batteries healthy. The newer chemistry certainly doesn't seems to mind the heat like the eariler car.

We'll let your Leaf be the test case, given your confidence.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
It sounds like we need to keep the car/battery at 100F and heavily on the road to keep our batteries healthy. The newer chemistry certainly doesn't seems to mind the heat like the eariler car.

Did you see my post in the other E Plus thread? Mine stabilized between 99 and 100º on a day and drive that would have likely increased the temps on my 40
 
lorenfb said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
It sounds like we need to keep the car/battery at 100F and heavily on the road to keep our batteries healthy. The newer chemistry certainly doesn't seems to mind the heat like the eariler car.

We'll let your Leaf be the test case, given your confidence.

We should have a better idea about these new batteries after we compare Dave's statistics (Washington) with mine (Arizona) after another year of use.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Could is suggest, everyone submit their Leaf Plus data to PIA? I put my 2 Leaf's up yesterday.

https://survey.pluginamerica.org/leaf/vehicles.php?order=year

Thanks for the link...added my data.
 
Board, with the sale of our Minivan today, we are officially an ev only family. 2 Leaf Pluses, cords and no more tanks.

Let's hope the last fill up i did for the new owner is my last stop to the gas station.

Thanks to those on the board that sent their info into pluginamerica.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Board, with the sale of our Minivan today, we are officially an ev only family. 2 Leaf Pluses, cords and no more tanks.

Let's hope the last fill up i did for the new owner is my last stop to the gas station.

Thanks to those on the board that sent their info into pluginamerica.

Woohoo. Way to go Doug. We are in year 5 of no gas....although we still have a diesel pusher Motorhome. Have to wait till the Tesla semi is converted to a Motorhome for that one to go.
 
Thanks.

Just filled up the S+ using my nc2c at evgo. (Only back up to 72% as I am trying to just use the middle third of the battery).

100 to 28% on the GOM...215 miles, 80-90 or so which were highway/freeway. 5.3 overall average...a good amount of AC usage in the last few days. Pretty amazing compared to our SV+.

The SV+ does fine, but averaging a solid .5 miles per kWh lower. Partly due to driving style (wife drives less efficiently) and partly car efficiency.
 
Doug,

Your differences in efficiency between S+ and SV+ are probably mainly due to odometer error. If your SV is like my SL, it travels further than the odometer indicates (probably about 2% with OEM Michelin tires) while the S probably travels less distance than the odometer indicates. Try comparing indicated distances between the two cars for the same route.
 
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