GRA
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Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:48 pm

danrjones wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:01 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:47 pm
danrjones wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:29 pm
The varying test conditions aside, 75 mph seems perfectly reasonable. All the highways around me that's about the average driving speed. I always keep my leaf at 70 mph but otherwise I'd probably be around 75 as well.

Speed limits when you hit AZ or other states are even higher.
Depends on where.

IIRC, the speed limits of some of the highways around/in the Seattle area were only 60 mph. And, people drive slow in Western WA. People go at or below the speed limit in the "fast lane" for no reason (daylight, dry, nobody in front) and often, don't move over when cars are piling up behind them.

For some highways, the speed limits would go up as you got further from populated metro areas.

This is in contrast to say the LA area, where I distinctly remember going over 70 mph in the middle lane of 55 mph zone of i-5 and cars were going by on both sides of me, including some zooming by (happens all the time in LA but not as much in the SF Bay Area).

In my part of the Bay Area, the speed limits are 65 mph at max (w/a few highways a bit lower) and 75 mph all the time in those would likely land you some tickets.
That's true of course. I'm thinking Southern and Eastern CA and Arizona and Nevada and beyond. The open roads so to speak. The posted speed limit in AZ and I-40 is 75 but most are doing 80 or more. In my area the official speed limit on US-395 and CA-14 is 65 or 70 depending on the area but traffic routinely is going 75. I'm certain I've seen posted limits out in Nevada at 80.

NV, UT, ID, MT, WY, SD, OK and TX all have 80 mph rural Interstate limits. All the other Western States except CA and OR (70) are 75. Since most people know the highway patrol will give them 5 mph, the actual speed is 75 or 80.

On my recent trip up I-505/5 to Shasta and back, I cruised at 80 for at least 1.5 hours, and 75 most of the rest of the time, and I was moving pretty much with. the flow of traffic. 505's always been pretty empty, but 5 seemed to have less traffic than I remember, no doubt due to Covid, and was moving a bit faster than typical - at the height of stay at home it must have been almost empty. The trucks were cruising in the high 60s.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

alozzy
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Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:53 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:32 am
alozzy wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:46 am
There are some really odd results. The EVs with the best aerodynamics (lowest CoD) seem to have a larger gap between their test and the EPA results, which doesn't make any sense since aerodynamic drag should be the biggest factor determining efficiency at those speeds.

How does the LEAF Plus have a closer gap between EPA and "real world" than a model 3 or a Kona Electric?

Got a feeling the testers had a heavy foot on the accelerator pedal, making the faster accelerating EVs seem worse than they should be.

If so, that's pretty useless comparison data
TMS. All ya gotta do is test them all on a cold day.
Doesn't the Model 3 use a resistive heater, rather than a heat pump? That could explain some of the difference too
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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Loving my first BEV :D

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:46 am

cwerdna wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:47 pm
danrjones wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:29 pm
The varying test conditions aside, 75 mph seems perfectly reasonable. All the highways around me that's about the average driving speed. I always keep my leaf at 70 mph but otherwise I'd probably be around 75 as well.

Speed limits when you hit AZ or other states are even higher.
Depends on where.

IIRC, the speed limits of some of the highways around/in the Seattle area were only 60 mph. And, people drive slow in Western WA. People go at or below the speed limit in the "fast lane" for no reason (daylight, dry, nobody in front) and often, don't move over when cars are piling up behind them.

For some highways, the speed limits would go up as you got further from populated metro areas.

This is in contrast to say the LA area, where I distinctly remember going over 70 mph in the middle lane of 55 mph zone of i-5 and cars were going by on both sides of me, including some zooming by (happens all the time in LA but not as much in the SF Bay Area).

In my part of the Bay Area, the speed limits are 65 mph at max (w/a few highways a bit lower) and 75 mph all the time in those would likely land you some tickets.
You nailed the description of Puget Sound traffic flow. I am constantly derided when I post trip computer shots from people.

"I wouldn't be able to stay awake driving that slow"
"Not worth it if I can only get somewhere slogging along like you"

The reality is people here drive 75 but have to weave in and out of traffic to do so and like EVERYWHERE we have plenty of them along with people who drive slow and NOT right due to merging traffic. So yeah, camping in the left lane is welcome here.

But my point is I post trip blogs based on typical driving conditions. I stopped driving for efficiency after I hit 40 kwh.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

wwhitney
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Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:49 am

Driving above 65 mph wastes energy, be it fossil fuels or electrical energy. 65 mph is good enough, conserve your energy.

Cheers, Wayne

johnlocke
Posts: 623
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Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:53 am

alozzy wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:53 pm
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:32 am
alozzy wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:46 am
There are some really odd results. The EVs with the best aerodynamics (lowest CoD) seem to have a larger gap between their test and the EPA results, which doesn't make any sense since aerodynamic drag should be the biggest factor determining efficiency at those speeds.

How does the LEAF Plus have a closer gap between EPA and "real world" than a model 3 or a Kona Electric?

Got a feeling the testers had a heavy foot on the accelerator pedal, making the faster accelerating EVs seem worse than they should be.

If so, that's pretty useless comparison data
TMS. All ya gotta do is test them all on a cold day.
Doesn't the Model 3 use a resistive heater, rather than a heat pump? That could explain some of the difference too
CD is only half of the equation. You also need to know what the cross-section area is. A car with a lower CD but larger cross-section could get worse mileage then a smaller car with a higher CD.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

GRA
Posts: 12186
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:47 pm

wwhitney wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:49 am
Driving above 65 mph wastes energy, be it fossil fuels or electrical energy. 65 mph is good enough, conserve your energy.

Cheers, Wayne
And driving above 55 wastes less energy than driving 65, and so on. As long as the purpose of your trip is primarily to use as little energy as possible (but in that case, why are you using a car, or FTM taking the trip in the first place?), driving slower down to quite ridiculous speeds will use less energy in a BEV.

However, as most people drive with the goal of getting to their destination quicker than they could by other means, maximum energy efficiency is well down their priority list.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

goldbrick
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Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:05 pm

I wonder how much carbon emissions would be reduced if everyone in the US just drove the speed limit....

Of course, that would never happen since who wants to suffer such an inconvenience, since in reality, it's someone else who is going to be suffering the catastrophic changes that are coming to this planet. We'll be gone before it gets too bad but people being born today may live to see many huge cities underwater, sort of like a superstorm Sandy every time it rains or the tide is high. Sucks to be them.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:30 pm

GRA wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:47 pm
wwhitney wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:49 am
Driving above 65 mph wastes energy, be it fossil fuels or electrical energy. 65 mph is good enough, conserve your energy.

Cheers, Wayne
And driving above 55 wastes less energy than driving 65, and so on. As long as the purpose of your trip is primarily to use as little energy as possible (but in that case, why are you using a car, or FTM taking the trip in the first place?), driving slower down to quite ridiculous speeds will use less energy in a BEV.

However, as most people drive with the goal of getting to their destination quicker than they could by other means, maximum energy efficiency is well down their priority list.

Reductio ad nauseum is an old hat indeed. You need new material.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12186
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:16 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:30 pm
GRA wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:47 pm
wwhitney wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:49 am
Driving above 65 mph wastes energy, be it fossil fuels or electrical energy. 65 mph is good enough, conserve your energy.

Cheers, Wayne
And driving above 55 wastes less energy than driving 65, and so on. As long as the purpose of your trip is primarily to use as little energy as possible (but in that case, why are you using a car, or FTM taking the trip in the first place?), driving slower down to quite ridiculous speeds will use less energy in a BEV.

However, as most people drive with the goal of getting to their destination quicker than they could by other means, maximum energy efficiency is well down their priority list.

Reductio ad nauseum is an old hat indeed. You need new material.
Fortunately, driving 75 or 80 instead of 65 or 70 when the traffic allows gives me plenty of extra free time to come up with it. I'm old enough to remember when we had a national 55 (and then 65) mph limit to conserve oil, which was probably more widely detested and violated by the public than any other federal law since prohibition.

Most states have been gradually increasing their rural interstate speed limits ever since it was repealed. We haven't quite gotten back to the days of Montana's 'reasonable and prudent' limits, where 100 mph or more could qualify, but maybe we will, although most people seem willing to cruise at 80. As the entire interstate system was designed to the same standard, there's no technical justification for having a 70 mph limit in California or Oregon, right next door to 80 mph limits on comparable roads/traffic volumes in Nevada or Idaho.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:35 pm

I too remember the 55MPH limit, and driving 60 was the practical limit before you got ticketed. You and all the other 80MPH dopes think the laws of physics get changed with the speed limits. They don't.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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