Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

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Bouldergramp

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
188
Location
COLORADO
Yesterday evening my Audi loving daughter drove my wife and me a total of 60 miles to Denver and back in our 2018 Leaf. Denver traffic on I-25 in the left lanes where we were was moving at a pretty good clip. Only a few motorcycles and fast cars and pickups passed us. From the back seat I noticed the speedometer was right at 90 mph. When we got home the battery, which started out fully charged, was at 59% with an estimated 96 miles remaining. The AC was set at 68 deg and the outside air temperature was in the mid 80's.

It was an interesting first trip on an interstate. We didn't drive the entire trip at 90 but I don't think she ever got down to the posted speed limits.
 
Nice, wecome to the LEAF family. As you can probably imagine there are quite a few around the Denver and Boulder area. We have EV groups in Denver and Colorado Springs if you wanted to talk to other EV drivers locally. Colorado Springs has weekly zoom meetings these days.

The car as you saw uses a lot more power to do a higher speed and the battery will gain a little bit of heat but nothing to worry about for that distance. I only maxed the car out once I think it was somewhere around 100mph so while the acceleration is not bad the cars top end speed is not noteworthy.

There is a lot of speculation on weather charging to 100% is good for the car, some think between 20-80 percent may extend battery life. Just thought I'd mention that idea.

You may be surprised but you can go to a lot of the state in your LEAF with the fast charger network that has been getting built out. I was just camping outside Telluride last week as an example. I recommend something like https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ to help you plan your trips if you ever want to leave the metro area in your LEAF as well as plugshare to see how people have done at chargers you plan to use.
 
The thinner air in Denver definitely helps, driving at that speed at sea level would have chewed up considerably more battery charge.
 
Bouldergramp said:
Yesterday evening my Audi loving daughter drove my wife and me a total of 60 miles to Denver and back in our 2018 Leaf. Denver traffic on I-25 in the left lanes where we were was moving at a pretty good clip. Only a few motorcycles and fast cars and pickups passed us. From the back seat I noticed the speedometer was right at 90 mph. When we got home the battery, which started out fully charged, was at 59% with an estimated 96 miles remaining. The AC was set at 68 deg and the outside air temperature was in the mid 80's.

It was an interesting first trip on an interstate. We didn't drive the entire trip at 90 but I don't think she ever got down to the posted speed limits.

Let's "cook" that Leaf battery, right? Did you check your battery temperature after that drive? Remember, the Leaf lacks TMS (battery cooling),
i.e. it's not an Audi, Bolt, or a Tesla where one can drive as if it were an ICEV.
 
for that distance of drive it is fine at 90mph out here. Waste of charge but will not build up enough heat to cook the battery. It's really the DCFCs that get you as it can't get rid of heat as you know but they didn't need that. Remember 30 miles there and 30 miles back.
 
salyavin said:
for that distance of drive it is fine at 90mph out here. Waste of charge but will not build up enough heat to cook the battery. It's really the DCFCs that get you as it can't get rid of heat as you know but they didn't need that. Remember 30 miles there and 30 miles back.

So you've checked the battery temperature after a lengthy drive at 90 MPH with the AC on with a 10-15 degree temp differential, right?
Or are you just guessing, if not provide your temperature readings using LeafSpy. Also, are you claiming like some that a moving Leaf
can reduce the battery's temperature, if so fully example how that can occur. So given your inference, TMS is only necessary when QCing,
and neither ambient temperatures nor temperature rises due to motor currents require TMS, right?
 
lorenfb said:
salyavin said:
for that distance of drive it is fine at 90mph out here. Waste of charge but will not build up enough heat to cook the battery. It's really the DCFCs that get you as it can't get rid of heat as you know but they didn't need that. Remember 30 miles there and 30 miles back.

So you've checked the battery temperature after a lengthy drive at 90 MPH with the AC on with a 10-15 degree temp differential, right?
Or are you just guessing, if not provide your temperature readings using LeafSpy. Also, are you claiming like some that a moving Leaf
can reduce the battery's temperature, if so fully example how that can occur. So given your inference, TMS is only necessary when QCing,
and neither ambient temperatures nor temperature rises due to motor currents require TMS, right?

I had the same thought as you Loren but if he really did use 40% of the 40 kWh battery to travel 60 miles that works out to 266 Wh/mile. No way anything but a small part of the drive was much over 65 mph.

As you say, a 45 minute drive at 90 mph would cook the battery. I don't have the LEAF CdA handy but the Bolt Aero resistance is 800 Newton at 87 mph, equal to about 32 kW. The LEAF will be higher, and the other losses and AC are icing on the cake. Easily a CHAdeMO equivalent and without any taper :lol:
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
I would like to efficiency test my S+ in Denver or Springs to see how much the thinner air helps.
Look up the air density compared to sea level. I think it is ~ 15 - 20% less.
That sounds like a lot but at the speeds you drive Aero is ~ 1/3 of power, less if AC is used.
So around a 5- 7% improvement, less with AC
 
There was very little neighborhood driving on our route. Google maps says the route is 30.2 miles and it takes 35 min in the usual traffic. Sunday afternoon was probably not usual traffic. I did not time our trip but I recall leaving Boulder after 4:30 and arriving before our 5:00 pm dinner date. I only noticed the high speed on our return trip.
As I said, "It was an interesting first trip on an interstate. We didn't drive the entire trip at 90 but I don't think she ever got down to the posted speed limits."
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
salyavin said:
for that distance of drive it is fine at 90mph out here. Waste of charge but will not build up enough heat to cook the battery. It's really the DCFCs that get you as it can't get rid of heat as you know but they didn't need that. Remember 30 miles there and 30 miles back.

So you've checked the battery temperature after a lengthy drive at 90 MPH with the AC on with a 10-15 degree temp differential, right?
Or are you just guessing, if not provide your temperature readings using LeafSpy. Also, are you claiming like some that a moving Leaf
can reduce the battery's temperature, if so fully example how that can occur. So given your inference, TMS is only necessary when QCing,
and neither ambient temperatures nor temperature rises due to motor currents require TMS, right?

I had the same thought as you Loren but if he really did use 40% of the 40 kWh battery to travel 60 miles that works out to 266 Wh/mile. No way anything but a small part of the drive was much over 65 mph.

As you say, a 45 minute drive at 90 mph would cook the battery. I don't have the LEAF CdA handy but the Bolt Aero resistance is 800 Newton at 87 mph, equal to about 32 kW. The LEAF will be higher, and the other losses and AC are icing on the cake. Easily a CHAdeMO equivalent and without any taper :lol:

Isn't his vehicle is a Leaf 2 (62 kWh battery), which results in 24.8 kWh (40% of 62 kWh) for 60 miles (2.4 miles/kWh, 413 Wh/mile),
which sounds about what one would expect his efficiency to be at a speed much much greater than 55-60 MPH.
My 40 kWh Leaf at 50-55 MPH does about 4.5 - 5.0 miles/kWh (212 Wh/mile). At 90 MPH is going to be significantly higher (~ 2X, (1.5)^2).

Bottom line: He really needed to have provided a battery temperature reading using LeafSpy.
 
Good grief! I am a retired electrical engineer with a MSEE. I am not interested in Leaf Spy or charging my 2018 Leaf S battery to 80% to preserve its life. It is charging in the garage now plugged into a 220V outlet. I will unplug it in the morning.
I just thought the trip to Denver and back was interesting.
 
lorenfb this is at least the 2nd time I've seen you trolling. I implore you to get some actual experience with a LEAF beyond driving it as a NEV. I would stay out of these discussions as you are clearly not experienced and only seem to be here to bother people.

As I mentioned earlier I am the one who did indeed lose temp on I-70 from 55C where I hit the 2nd red bar. This is full interstate speed on Vail pass when took me below all red markers. This was this summer. Losing heat in winter at speed on the interstate is more dramatic.

regarding the distance it is 30 miles from Boulder to Denver, I live in the area. he would not have driven 90 the whole time and had a rest before the return trip as he arrived somewhere. We are not talking about 60 miles at once driven at that speed more like 20 probably less. with a rest period then perhaps a 2nd 20 miles at that speed. I would be surprised if we are talking as much as 20 each way though, traffic will not often allow that.

Your general idea of driving 100 miles at a 90 miles an hour is a very bad idea in even a LEAF Plus, I fully support. Under 20 I am not too bothered about you will not "red line" the battery which is my qualification for cooking a battery. Come back when you have some experience with a gen 2 LEAF and can actually add something.
 
Bouldergramp said:
I just thought the trip to Denver and back was interesting.
Sure.
Next time if you do not mind, take a peek at the temperature gauge at the end of the trip.
By the way, do you have a 40 or 62 kWh LEAF ?
 
salyavin said:
Under 20 I am not too bothered about you will not "red line" the battery which is my qualification for cooking a battery.
Considerable damage occurs to the battery below the red line. If e.g. we are talking about 100F Vs 70F battery temperature the former has ~ 3x the degradation rate. You can ignore it but people who do not are hardly trolls. Similarly, ignorance such as you are displaying does not make someone clued in like Loren a troll.

As for whether the battery reaches the red line after 20 miles of 90 mph driving -- I'm not sure but we can reason a little**:
Figure 40 kW on level terrain, so about equivalent to the 'rapid' phase of CHAdeMO charging for ~ 15 minutes. What does your experience tell you if you start with a battery at 80F ? Now, do it again on the return home. If you think that the stop before returning home of an hour or 2 leads to considerable battery cooling, I have a bridge to sell you.

** We can also calculate resistance losses in the battery at ~ 125 Amps and calculate temperature rise based on heat capacity but I don't think anybody would read it other than Loren (and he already knows the result) so I'll skip the calculation.
 
SageBrush said:
Bouldergramp said:
I just thought the trip to Denver and back was interesting.
Sure.
Next time if you do not mind, take a peek at the temperature gauge at the end of the trip.
By the way, do you have a 40 or 62 kWh LEAF ?

Our car is a 2018 Leaf S. It has a 40 kWh battery. I have never examined the display menu and did not know it had a temperature gauge. I would think the downhill run into Boulder from Davidson Mesa would tend to cool things off.
 
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