24 kWh Battery replacement cost back down to $5500

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SageBrush said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
Fascinating. This means while they have exhausted their 30kWh batteries, but still have old 24kWh batteries hanging around.
I warned this forum multiple times about this possibility but @daveInOly and others were positive that packs were being built JIT to put in the car. They are obviously wrong ... again.

The only silver lining (I think) is that the pack will have an 8 bars or less degradation warranty OP can invoke before the sooner of 5 yrs or 60k miles. Does OP know ?

Best new pack
24 kWh, and ~ 3% is reserved at the top
I think 360 volts is nominal, so LeafSpy would report 24,000/360 = ~ 66 Ahr

Actually, I said they were built in batches based on expected need. Nissan recently had a fire sale on the packs likely to reduce inventory so not extremely surprised. Shelf life of packs is supposed to be 5 years under ideal conditions. Guess if you want to preview your potential replacement, one could start by surveying unprotected fields near Phoenix.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Actually,
You said that consumers would never get a pack that had been sitting on a shelf for years.
You were also confident that brand new replacement packs were heading towards $2,000 circa 2018

LOL
 
I guess leaf spy will provide me with the answer as to the condition of the new pack. I should have the car back next week and will report my leaf spy data...
 
Too many practical business people suffocating the original dream for Nissan for that to happen.

I give Nissan huge marks for the original Leaf. Through 2014 (remember when Leaf exceeded 30K sales a year in the US) it appeared they might really own the segment. Like different points in Teslas history, Nissan needed to take that next jump with the Infinity Electric and stomach the needed couple years if loss with the car..but they didnt. And from there starting falling behind.

Thats said, cars are a bargin now.
 
69800 said:
Well here is the latest on my new battery. The cost is $7500 out the door. The battery just arrived this week. It took about 3 week to get.

I asked the Service Manager to check the date of manufacture on the new battery and guess what...... November 2017 !!!!!!!!

So now I have a brand new 3 year old battery. I am a little pissed. I will plug in leaf spy when I get it.

Does anyone know where I can find the leaf spy specs on a new 24 kwh battery so I have something to compare with ??????

thanks :eek: :eek:

How did you pay the dealer? If you used a credit card, you can dispute it. If by check, stop payment. Nissan's behavior on this is unconscionable (as Click and Clack would say). Plus they already baited and switched, IMO, jacking the price up $1500? Don't take their crap!!
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Actually,
You said that consumers would never get a pack that had been sitting on a shelf for years.
You were also confident that brand new replacement packs were heading towards $2,000 circa 2018

LOL

It was $3995 but that would make sense and i can't make a lot of sense over what Nissan is doing. I still think there is a lot of stuff we don't know about Ghosn affair.
 
I cannot blame the dealer here. Nissans battery sale ended at the end of May. The parts computer prices did get updated until late June after I got the quotes. They did all the could do to get Nissan to reduce the price and in the end the price when from $5500 to $8500 and back down to $7500 because Nissan gave me a $1000 credit.
My only other choice was to bring the car home and drive it till it quit or Invest $7500 and be able to drive the car which is in perfect condition with 57000 miles for 10 more years.... Plus I like the quality of the ones built in Japan. Life is to short to try to take on a fight with a giant corporation......

I see use cars in Seattle for sale with 50000 miles on them for 8 of $9000 but I will just keep mine.

Tomorrow I pick the car up (July 19 2020) and I will plug in leaf spy before I leave the dealer. If leaf spy show anything other than perfect (since the casing of the pack show a date of 2017) Then they will have a big fight on there hands.
 
69800 said:
Tomorrow I pick the car up (July 19 2020) and I will plug in leaf spy before I leave the dealer. If leaf spy show anything other than perfect (since the casing of the pack show a date of 2017) Then they will have a big fight on there hands.

What does perfect on leaf spy even look like?
 
EVornottoEV said:
69800 said:
Tomorrow I pick the car up (July 19 2020) and I will plug in leaf spy before I leave the dealer. If leaf spy show anything other than perfect (since the casing of the pack show a date of 2017) Then they will have a big fight on there hands.

What does perfect on leaf spy even look like?

I'd say a SOH of 99% or higher. Since some new Leafs leave the lot with 98% or so, though, I'd use that as the minimum.
 
To give you some baseline battery information: When I purchased my 2015, I drove to a parking lot across the street from the dealer and plugged in LEAF Spy. My initial readings were: AHr=64.38, SOH=100%, Hx=101.25%, Odometer=9, QC=1, L1/L2=4. After fully discharging and then charging on L2, the readings were: AHr=64.38, SOH=100%, Hx=100.92%, V=395.60, Gids=292, Odometer=79, QC=1, L1/L2=8 (had 3 short charges to test charging capability from portable generators during the day before the full discharge). My car was manufactured in January 2015 and purchased on February 7, 2015 so the battery was fresh from the factory when I started driving it.

Good luck with your refreshed car. The 2011's and 2012's have some features missing from later cars. The fit/finish of the LEAFs made in Japan was better than for later cars made in the USA. Also most of the body panels on them (hood, doors, hatch, etc.) were made of aluminum so they were less prone to corrosion.
 
EVornottoEV said:
69800 said:
Tomorrow I pick the car up (July 19 2020) and I will plug in leaf spy before I leave the dealer. If leaf spy show anything other than perfect (since the casing of the pack show a date of 2017) Then they will have a big fight on there hands.

What does perfect on leaf spy even look like?

SOH 100%, ahr 67.20 more or less. If this pack is like the others, the GID value and ahr will wander up and down so these are approximate
 
Well it was $7500 out the door. my numbers look very good. It has only been driven 27 miles the last nite I used the L1 charger to 100% to balance the pack. The only thing ODD is the leaf spy shows 97.6% charged when fully charged. Should it not say 100% ?????????
AHr = 66.14
SOH =100%
Hx = 99.73
Gids = 279
mv min/max/avg = 3.98 3.99 4.0 with (13mv) difference

It was really nice to see 101 miles on the GOM with heat off and 96 mile heat on... But thats the gom.

The did some updates since my car has never been to the dealer. On make an obnoxious beep if the door is open.
Any one know how to turn the beep off????????????????????
 
Your Leaf Spy numbers look good. I forgot about the update to add the door open beep--I remember being frustrated when my 2011 was updated. You might try going through all of the options in the service menu part of Leaf Spy. I just learned to live with the beeping (and minimize the time with the door open and car on). At least it prepared me for that beep in the newer cars! Enjoy your refreshed car--I still like the 2011/2012 versions and wish mine had not met an untimely end.
 
GerryAZ said:
Your Leaf Spy numbers look good.
I don't wish to jinx him but I wonder if the LeafSpy results are the actual pack, or represent what we see after a pack reset. He will know for sure in a couple of months.
 
My experience with replacement battery in 2011, 2015 when new, and 2019 when new is that the AHr and SOH numbers updated each time the car was turned on. The 2019 seems to have an additional "adjustment" every 90 days (based upon manufacture date), but the previous cars tracked linearly. Therefore, he should have valid data. The numbers will likely drop a little at first and then be stable for a while since his new battery should be equal to the 2015 battery and that is how my 2015 acted. My experience with the replacement battery in the 2011 (original battery type from Japan) was that the reset yielded a high AHr number, but the number dropped to actual value by the time I got home from the dealer. The 2011 replacement battery AHr dropped each time the car was turned on, but the 2015 was stable for a while before starting a gradual decline.

Since Leaf Spy shows actual %SOC, it will never get to 100% or 0%. The dash display of %SOC on 2013 and later cars goes from 0% to 100% which represents the useable SOC range that Nissan allows.
 
69800 said:
The only thing ODD is the leaf spy shows 97.6% charged when fully charged. Should it not say 100% ?
No, that is expected.
LS reports the entire battery capacity, the Nissan meter excludes the owner unusable reserve at the top and bottom of the battery voltage curve.
 
69800 said:
Well it was $7500 out the door. my numbers look very good. It has only been driven 27 miles the last nite I used the L1 charger to 100% to balance the pack. The only thing ODD is the leaf spy shows 97.6% charged when fully charged. Should it not say 100% ?????????
AHr = 66.14
SOH =100%
Hx = 99.73
Gids = 279
mv min/max/avg = 3.98 3.99 4.0 with (13mv) difference

It was really nice to see 101 miles on the GOM with heat off and 96 mile heat on... But thats the gom.

The did some updates since my car has never been to the dealer. On make an obnoxious beep if the door is open.
Any one know how to turn the beep off????????????????????

SOC should only be no more than 98% so that is perfectly normal. Your voltage is a touch lower than expected but i would consider that to be a good thing as one of things that hurt Nissan degradation is charging too full.

GIDs and ahr are a bit low but also normal for a pack that has been sitting. I would just drive it a week or so and recheck. Now that you have a fresh start, I would ignore top end balancing and determine a process to only charge to the level you need for your needs.
 
GerryAZ said:
My experience with replacement battery in 2011, 2015 when new, and 2019 when new is that the AHr and SOH numbers updated each time the car was turned on. The 2019 seems to have an additional "adjustment" every 90 days (based upon manufacture date), but the previous cars tracked linearly. Therefore, he should have valid data. The numbers will likely drop a little at first and then be stable for a while since his new battery should be equal to the 2015 battery and that is how my 2015 acted. My experience with the replacement battery in the 2011 (original battery type from Japan) was that the reset yielded a high AHr number, but the number dropped to actual value by the time I got home from the dealer. The 2011 replacement battery AHr dropped each time the car was turned on, but the 2015 was stable for a while before starting a gradual decline.

Since Leaf Spy shows actual %SOC, it will never get to 100% or 0%. The dash display of %SOC on 2013 and later cars goes from 0% to 100% which represents the useable SOC range that Nissan allows.


Interesting. Since the early pack numbers bounced up and down, it was hard to determine where the pack actually was. In reality, they should decline since there is no way the pack can regain lost capacity in any significant amount. My 2011 got GIDmeter Feb 2012 and it read the "full" 281 until summer 2012 meaning it was supposedly at 100% for nearly 18 months. I can't say I noticed any real range loss but guessing I simply don't remember.

The 2013 max'd out at 284 GIDs and 67.36 ahr and the last date I hit those numbers was August 2014 making almost 9 months at 100% and finally my 2016 lasted a few days short of 14 months and at least on paper, was the best pack I ever had. It max'd at 363 GIDs and 82.34 ahr but it was also a bit unique. On the 4th day I had it, I recorded 82.40 ahr and wondering if I simply typo'd it because unlike the previous 2, my numbers didn't bounce around at all. Brought home Nov 10, 2016, the first time either ahr or GIDs varied was July 2nd 2017 but that lasted only a day and the 2nd time the numbers varied was Nov 14th.

Some history required here. The 2016 was first to have NCTC for me (other than the freebie from the battery suit) and due to new assignments from work, I was DCing on the road every day sometimes as much as 2-3 times a day so the entire history of the vehicle, over 90% of the charge received was fast charging.

On the first dip, I was on vacation and that was the first day back after 8 days of inactivity. The 2nd dip was the annual slowdown at work which always happens just before Thanksgiving and my numbers stayed low until late December when work picked up again. During the slow period, I averaged less than 20 miles a day including several days under 10 miles per day.

Then comes the new packs where both my 2018 and 2019 was a steady slow decline with no increases and the major adjustment every 90 days. My 2019 has never increased in stats, my 2018 did increase stats on its 5th 90 day adjustment.

It would seem one increase in adjustment is the norm for everyone. For some its the 2nd or 3rd one but for most, it seems to happen on the 4th or 5th one.
 
Ok
Now the my wife retired so no more commuting to work I will never need a full charge except for balancing. This car will last another 10 years then I will cut of the top and put it out in front of the farm as a flow pot.
Thank all who contributed to my saga.

Signing off
 
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