arnis
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:47 am

I hope one day someone opens up the inverter management code and removes that stupid "no regen" sh*t.
It doesn't make any sense as it has little effect for SOH. Especially regen up to 20kW (~1C charge rate).
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

cwerdna
Posts: 11144
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:21 am

From a post at https://www.facebook.com/groups/BayLeaf ... 4363441202, is this 4 bar remaining '11 Leaf for $1K. It might have other probs if the car's fully booted...

https://offerup.com/item/detail/922130182/
https://web.archive.org/web/20200827181 ... 922130182/
https://web.archive.org/web/20200827181 ... 7a0e4e.jpg - archive of dash pic

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 11144
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:20 pm

Lothsahn wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:48 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:41 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:45 pm
Ok, this person (initials MT) in Los Angeles has a 3 (!) bar remaining '11 with 115K miles. Pic of dash and bars at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 9481376202. Unfortunately, the group is a private one.

I think this is the worst I've seen of a Leaf in the US.
From https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 454424765/, this post from today still shows him at 3 capacity bars remaining and now at 118K miles in Los Angeles.
How can he even use that thing? Is he not replacing the battery just for laughs? :)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 7787175696 is another post from him. He's at 119K miles now. I thought he just hit 3 bars left but after finding my previous post (quoted), that's not the case.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:12 am

Another update on my replacement (lizard) battery (Nov. 2016):
battery log 9.17.20.jpg
Early degradation varied substantially, however on average was about .4 to .5 Ah/month. Overall average to date is about .3 Ah/month and for the last two years has settled to less than .2 Ah/month.

Even in my hot Texas climate, it seems stabilizing around 50 Ah will give me fairly good range for a couple more years. At least acceptable to my needs.

Note - have not "curve fit" the data, so degradation is an "eye-ball" estimate.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:47 am

Marktm wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:12 am
Another update on my replacement (lizard) battery (Nov. 2016):
.
.
.
Even in my hot Texas climate, it seems stabilizing around 50 Ah will give me fairly good range for a couple more years. At least acceptable to my needs.
I have stabilized around the same 50 Ahr with a lizard battery dated January 2016. So similar, although I have gone through one more (Texas) summer than you.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:14 am

Stanton wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:47 am
Marktm wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:12 am
Another update on my replacement (lizard) battery (Nov. 2016):
.
.
.
Even in my hot Texas climate, it seems stabilizing around 50 Ah will give me fairly good range for a couple more years. At least acceptable to my needs.
I have stabilized around the same 50 Ahr with a lizard battery dated January 2016. So similar, although I have gone through one more (Texas) summer than you.
Probably time for a different energy rating system for all EVs - that gives buyers a better idea of energy loss trends. Does seem Nissan's design results in fairly rapid energy loss early, then a stabilization period that many buyers should know about so that they can make a better decision about their use cases.

Now I'm wondering if cramming 40/60 kWh in the same space with essentially very limited, if any cooling, will now get Nissan back in the same problem of continuous degradation in our hot climates of TX, AZ, NM, etc. Lot's of opinions and data on this, but any conclusions?
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

User avatar
Stanton
Forum Supporter
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:32 pm

Marktm wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:14 am
Now I'm wondering if cramming 40/60 kWh in the same space with essentially very limited, if any cooling, will now get Nissan back in the same problem of continuous degradation in our hot climates of TX, AZ, NM, etc. Lot's of opinions and data on this, but any conclusions?
Based on conjecture from the 30/40/62 kWh threads, I'm thinking that the 40 kWh pack will do at least as well (degrade at the same rate) as the current lizard pack (the 30 kWh pack was a non-starter).
One of the reasons I'm planning on doing a "retrofit" of a 40 kWh pack (at some point) is that even at half capacity, it would be almost as good as a new 24 kWh pack. In addition, the 40 kWh is a better mechanical fit in a Gen 1 Leaf than the 62 kWh.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
Lithium Pros 12v LiFePO4 battery w/Antigravity Battery Tracker
FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

SageBrush
Posts: 5269
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:47 pm

Marktm wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:12 am
Note - have not "curve fit" the data, so degradation is an "eye-ball" estimate.
I have also seen a reduction in the annual Ahr loss.

Image
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 579
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:51 am

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:47 pm

I have also seen a reduction in the annual Ahr loss.
Just got back from 10 days in Cement Creek area (South of Crested Butte). Like those temperatures! :mrgreen:

Was the original battery replaced? Amazing difference if not.
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

SageBrush
Posts: 5269
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:17 am

Marktm wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:51 am
Was the original battery replaced? Amazing difference if not.
Original battery, manufactured in 10/2013

The Ahr loss has some context to be aware of. First off, I think I bought a car that had the battery reset. So while my graph starts about 6 months after purchase there still might be some effect at the beginning of the graphed period. Second, I moved from SW Colorado to Albuquerque, NM in early 2019. My home in Albuquerque has a warmer (but in particular longer) summer than SW Colorado. And last, the car has been used very little in 2020 and has sat in the shade.

All in all, the trend has lots of caveats attached, but I obviously would be ecstatic if the low (for a LEAF) Ahr loss of the past year continues. I'm pencilling in another 5 years of use for our modest use of the car. It certainly helps that we can still look forward to using the 80% to 100% SoC that is currently in reserve, and my wife is reasonably compliant with my never ending advice to prolong useful battery life.

Oddly enough, my pre-occupation these days is whether I should sell the car before end of life to minimize depreciation. I'm in the fortunate position (I think) of coming out in good shape either way. Today my wife is going to check out the Bolt just in case it becomes available at dirt cheap prices in the next couple of months (~ $20k) and the LEAF can be sold for ~ $7k. My mental rule of thumb is ~ $80 a month cap cost, which is just amazing, even for a hobbled car.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”