lorenfb
Posts: 2474
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:49 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:46 am
On all of the vehicles I have data for (the replacement battery for the 2011, the 2015, and the 2019), Hx started out above 100% so it must be referenced to some nominal value and not the actual starting value for the particular battery.
1. So you now agree that Hx is a percent.
2. Most data indicate that it's only Leaf 2 which has Hx above 100%. Where're the references indicating Leaf 1 had Hx greater than 100%?
GerryAZ wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:46 am
I have the most data for the 2015 and Hx did seem to inversely track the change in internal resistance over the 4-1/2 years I drove that car. I observed/tracked internal resistance by noting voltage drop under full load and calculating approximate internal resistance periodically.
But here you note that Hx inversely tracks the "change in internal resistance", which contradicts your previously statement that Hx is a percent,
i.e. Hx indicates the relative value, in a percentage, of the battery conductance over time.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm

Since I apparently confused you, I edited my previous post to clarify that percentage reduction in Hx somewhat tracks with the increase of internal resistance over time. Also, I was wrong--the 2011 replacement battery (original chemistry from Japan) did start at 100.00% for Hx and 100% for SOH with initial readings taken across the street from the dealer (although the terms were not defined the same in the older versions of Leaf Spy so Hx was called Hlth back in 2013). SOH was still 100% after the 12-mile drive home from the dealer, but Hx dropped to 88.08%. The Leaf Spy readings at home with the odometer indicating 29,382 (29,370 when battery was installed) were: AHr=65.60, SOH=100%, Hx=88.08%, QC=30, and L1/L2=859. The morning before the crash on January 4, 2015, the Leaf Spy readings were: AHr=53.94, SOH=82%, Hx=66.27%, QC=57, L1/L2=1408 with the odometer indicating 50,416 miles. The 2015 started with the following Leaf Spy readings on February 7, 2015 (across the street from the dealer): AHr=64.38, SOH=100%, Hx=101.25%, V=391.37, Odometer=9, QC=1, L1/L2=4, and SOC=85.7%. The last readings I have for the 2015 were on August 10, 2019: AHr=39.84, SOH=63.44%, Hx=34.14%, V=388.32, Odometer=82,434, QC=340, L1/L2=1483, and SOC=80.9%. As noted in other threads, the 2019 started with AHr=175.15, SOH=99.29% and Hx=98.19%. Hx initially increased then slowly decreased as the car was driven and is presently at 102.12%. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the 30 kWh or 40 kWh batteries.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

lorenfb
Posts: 2474
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:35 pm

GerryAZ wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:43 pm
Since I apparently confused you, I edited my previous post to clarify that percentage reduction in Hx somewhat tracks with the increase of internal resistance over time. Also, I was wrong--the 2011 replacement battery (original chemistry from Japan) did start at 100.00% for Hx and 100% for SOH with initial readings taken across the street from the dealer (although the terms were not defined the same in the older versions of Leaf Spy so Hx was called Hlth back in 2013). SOH was still 100% after the 12-mile drive home from the dealer, but Hx dropped to 88.08%. The Leaf Spy readings at home with the odometer indicating 29,382 (29,370 when battery was installed) were: AHr=65.60, SOH=100%, Hx=88.08%, QC=30, and L1/L2=859. The morning before the crash on January 4, 2015, the Leaf Spy readings were: AHr=53.94, SOH=82%, Hx=66.27%, QC=57, L1/L2=1408 with the odometer indicating 50,416 miles. The 2015 started with the following Leaf Spy readings on February 7, 2015 (across the street from the dealer): AHr=64.38, SOH=100%, Hx=101.25%, V=391.37, Odometer=9, QC=1, L1/L2=4, and SOC=85.7%. The last readings I have for the 2015 were on August 10, 2019: AHr=39.84, SOH=63.44%, Hx=34.14%, V=388.32, Odometer=82,434, QC=340, L1/L2=1483, and SOC=80.9%. As noted in other threads, the 2019 started with AHr=175.15, SOH=99.29% and Hx=98.19%. Hx initially increased then slowly decreased as the car was driven and is presently at 102.12%. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the 30 kWh or 40 kWh batteries.
Thanks for clarifying your views, and it appears we both agree, i.e. Hx is a percentage representing the battery's relative conductance (mhos)
over time as the battery degrades for Leaf 1.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

Paulcf
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 08 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 300609
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:56 pm

Well hello everyone...I confess I can't read all 187 pages devoted to this topic! It is as varied as a discussion on religion or politics!
I recently bought a 2017 Leaf SV from Colorado (cooler temps?) and I live in Alberta, Canada. This winter my battery temperature gauge often showed only 1 bar. It gets wicked cold here. I do leave it plugged in overnite (L1). Summer and I see 3 or maybe 4 temperature bars, that's all.

At 27,000 miles I just lost my first bar, horrors! I don't have Leaf Spy and I have no idea what it is, how much it costs, or if I really even need it. My gas SUV has a fuel gauge, I didn't go out and buy another fuel gauge for it.

I have petitioned my Nissan dealer to update my BMS per TSB PC630 (also known as NTB18-039) with hopes it will properly format my 'gas' gauge capacity reader and I might gain back my lost 12th BC bar. Will update you on that. Not many Leaf's (Leaves) here in the land of V8 hemis.

If any of you have had this TSB done on your 30 kWh battery Leaf, I'd love to hear the results of it please. Thank you!

goldbrick
Posts: 1018
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:12 pm

My 2017 S was at 92% SOH after 6 months and then went to 97% or so after the BMS reset which occurred at about 1 year. After 3 years, I'm at 93% SOH and 22k miles now.

1st bar goes at about 85% SOH. Colorado can get hot and how the car is charged makes a big difference. 85% SOH is possible but you really won't know until the BMS update is done.

SageBrush
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:55 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:12 pm
1st bar goes at about 85% SOH. Colorado can get hot and how the car is charged makes a big difference. 85% SOH is possible but you really won't know until the BMS update is done.
... and a few months pass to allow for recalibration
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 11318
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:37 pm

I guess I need to start a new list for 30 kWh 4 bar losers since old list at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 68#p525968 arguably isn't really valid now due to the firmware update to fix capacity reporting (https://insideevs.com/news/338528/updat ... ng-issues/ https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/ ... 9-9999.pdf aka campaign PC630).

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of post update.

Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers, made mistakes, double-counted someone, etc. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication. I'm probably missing some since I haven't been closely watching this and other 30 kWh threads.

1) AB, Dallas, TX, Sept 2020: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 1457830328 - he says he got the update in July 2018 already.
2) CaliLeaf, Jan 2020: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30816
3) GaleHawkins, Feb 2020: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 11#p580411 - date might not be correct

Unclear about johnlocke's case due to the date https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... ce#p529513, the campaign date and whether the replacement was premature.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 777
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:23 am

cwerdna wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:37 pm
I guess I need to start a new list for 30 kWh 4 bar losers since old list at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 68#p525968 arguably isn't really valid now due to the firmware update to fix capacity reporting (https://insideevs.com/news/338528/updat ... ng-issues/ https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/ ... 9-9999.pdf aka campaign PC630).

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of post update.

Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers, made mistakes, double-counted someone, etc. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication. I'm probably missing some since I haven't been closely watching this and other 30 kWh threads.

1) AB, Dallas, TX, Sept 2020: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 1457830328 - he says he got the update in July 2018 already.
2) CaliLeaf, Jan 2020: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30816
3) GaleHawkins, Feb 2020: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 11#p580411 - date might not be correct

Unclear about johnlocke's case due to the date https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... ce#p529513, the campaign date and whether the replacement was premature.
my sister's 2016 30kwh leaf SV hit 4 bars in Feb 17, went to the dealership to start the process and didn't get the replacement (40kwh pack) until middle of march.

my own 2016 leaf S just hit 2 bars 2 months ago, so I'll probably lose the 4th bar within 2 years. :(
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

GaleHawkins
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:14 pm

Has anyone in the last 6 months qualified for a new 40 battery?

awhile
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 01 Nov 2018
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:34 pm

My 2016 Leaf SV dropped from 9 to 8 bars last week. I plan to talk to dealership this week and will provide update on the outcome. 71k miles. I use Leaf Spy Pro.
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 8/2016. New 40 kWh replacement battery installed 9/2020 under warranty.

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