2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

DaveinOlyWA said:

Your car is normal and STOP LOOKING AT THE GOM!!!
The LEAF has a hidden reserve that grows as the SOC declines. IOW; its robbing the GOM of miles so it has more to hide from you. Use LEAF Spy. It has a range estimator. USE IT!

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ok ok I have other people telling me different things in different places.

Also, my Leaf shows 64miles but SpyPro shows 37.9miles (with 5% reserve)?! Not sure I am doing this right.

That's at 2.5mi/kWh average economy (used to get 3.8 in my i3... so may need to learn how to drive this car better).

The dealer told me that everything is fine but advised me to drive as much as possible and come back in a week to read it again.

wiredfutureman said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

Your car is normal and STOP LOOKING AT THE GOM!!!
The LEAF has a hidden reserve that grows as the SOC declines. IOW; its robbing the GOM of miles so it has more to hide from you. Use LEAF Spy. It has a range estimator. USE IT!

Click to expand...

ok ok I have other people telling me different things in different places.

Also, my Leaf shows 64miles but SpyPro shows 37.9miles (with 5% reserve)?! Not sure I am doing this right.

That's at 2.5mi/kWh average economy (used to get 3.8 in my i3... so may need to learn how to drive this car better).

The dealer told me that everything is fine but advised me to drive as much as possible and come back in a week to read it again.

Click to expand...

LEAF Spy has a miles/kwh feature "you" have to set. Is it set properly? Are you resetting the miles/kwh daily? You won't have a good idea of your efficiency if you don't. How can a running average over several weeks be of value? Looking back at the end of the day is a Hell of lot easier than trying to decipher weeks of driving.

And why are you setting up LEAF Spy like the GOM? Who cares what you got at 5%. Do you want to know what your range is or do you want to know what 95% of your range is?

DaveinOlyWA said:

LEAF Spy has a miles/kwh feature "you" have to set. Is it set properly? Are you resetting the miles/kwh daily? You won't have a good idea of your efficiency if you don't. How can a running average over several weeks be of value? Looking back at the end of the day is a Hell of lot easier than trying to decipher weeks of driving.

And why are you setting up LEAF Spy like the GOM? Who cares what you got at 5%. Do you want to know what your range is or do you want to know what 95% of your range is?

Click to expand...

Thanks Dave. I don't know :s

I set the mi/kwh in the Spy based on the average shown by the trip computer, which is currently at 2.5.

What should I set the Spy to show me the current range at 2.5mi/kwh? I just left it at the default but also have:

Miles -> LBW
Miles -> VLBW
Miles -> 5% (currently set)

The way I understood the Spy, the summary screen (3) on the bottom right (next to temp/tires) shows the range (estimated trip distance according to the manual) based on the average consumption (which I set manually)?

Oddly, the Leaf dashboard tells me I have 91% charge at 65 miles (63 with a/c) but the Spy tells me I have 17kWh remaining (or 38.6 Miles -> 5% at 2.5mi/kWh). Render me confused :s

You aren't really doing anything wrong. It appears that Dave was in a bad mood when he wrote that. Most people do manage more than 2.5 M/KWH, but if that's what you get then that's what you should enter to get available range. Leaving a 5% reserve is a good idea, although 10% would be better. The Nissan instrumentation (heh) shows a modified version of actual charge, probably to spare the battery, while LeafSpy shows you what the BMS is reporting as actual charge.

wiredfutureman said:

ac19 said:

If the car is from 2016 and have the LBC firmware version 4NR4A I'm almost sure that the firmware update is missing. After that, it will be with version 4NR4C.

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Just got feedback from Nissan in Milton Keynes in the UK (Glyn H) and they say it's all OK and I have the latest updates. There are no updates for the battery and the performance/charge levels are what they'd expect :'(

Should I return the car and look for another?
I paid ~£10k for a four year old Leaf Tekna with small charger and a range well below 100miles...

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Yes, keep it. But at this point, I'd "unintentionally" abuse it - leave it fully charged all the time, parked outside, under the sun. And/or leave it with less than 5% charge, parked outside, under the sun. You have enough miles remaining in your warranty that you'll probably qualify for a warranty replacement before it expires.

The range is under 100 miles (brand new, it was rated for only 107 miles), because the battery had lost 30% of its capacity. You can compensate for it during this time by driving slower (below 60mph) and smoothly. It's not ideal, but is worth the effort. BECAUSE ... if you get a warranty replaced pack, it will most likely be a 40kwh pack, which is rated for 150miles of range. In which case, your "lemon" becomes a virtual 2018 leaf for ~£10k. So yeah, keep it.

wiredfutureman said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

LEAF Spy has a miles/kwh feature "you" have to set. Is it set properly? Are you resetting the miles/kwh daily? You won't have a good idea of your efficiency if you don't. How can a running average over several weeks be of value? Looking back at the end of the day is a Hell of lot easier than trying to decipher weeks of driving.

And why are you setting up LEAF Spy like the GOM? Who cares what you got at 5%. Do you want to know what your range is or do you want to know what 95% of your range is?

Click to expand...

Thanks Dave. I don't know :s

I set the mi/kwh in the Spy based on the average shown by the trip computer, which is currently at 2.5.

What should I set the Spy to show me the current range at 2.5mi/kwh? I just left it at the default but also have:

Miles -> LBW
Miles -> VLBW
Miles -> 5% (currently set)

The way I understood the Spy, the summary screen (3) on the bottom right (next to temp/tires) shows the range (estimated trip distance according to the manual) based on the average consumption (which I set manually)?

Oddly, the Leaf dashboard tells me I have 91% charge at 65 miles (63 with a/c) but the Spy tells me I have 17kWh remaining (or 38.6 Miles -> 5% at 2.5mi/kWh). Render me confused :s

Click to expand...

The miles/kwh will change constantly. What you want to do is reset the meter every day for several days to get an idea of what you are getting and what situations will move that number up or down. This should be done at the beginning of each season. Then in LEAF Spy settings, you can set that 5% to any increment from 1 to 99%. I highly recommend 1% and coming to grips with the reality that this is a target you MUST avoid. Realize setting it to 5% is a self designed hidden reserve. We already have the GOM and its hidden reserve. Notice toggling ECO on and off changes the GOM?

In the event you are doing a trip that stretches the range, toggling thru the miles/kwh setting in LEAF Spy will give you a target efficiency to aim for.

I reset my miles/kwh meter every day. On my days off, the number is all over the map but if taking just my work commute over the past 3 weeks (which I haven't done any other driving other than that) my efficiency runs from 4.4 miles/kwh to 5.3 miles/kwh. Pretty huge range and that is after pulling out the one day we had some significant rain (4.1)

Thank you everyone for all your help! Everything is back as it should be (and then some more I think?) As some of you may have previously read, I had a new to me 2017 (~27,500 miles) with SOH= ~55% and a range of 59 miles at 100% charge. I took the vehicle to a second Nissan dealership after the first one flat out refused to warranty the battery. The second dealership needed some serious education too, but they were willing to listen, wanted to learn, and appreciated my business. It took three days for them to warranty the battery and I just picked it up. Here are the stats...





I only drove it a couple of miles home so I am not sure if it needs to be driven farther before more "learning" occurs between the car and the new battery?

The other thing that really puzzles me is the number of QC's and L1/L2s that are on the battery? Could that be accurate?

Thanks again for everyone's help. I am another warranty replacement/upgrade success.

Cheers,
Blake

Congrats! You have a 40kWh battery in your car now, so it should have 133% of the range it had when new.

The QC and L1/L2 counters don't get reset when the battery is replaced so that is normal. Enjoy your better-than-new Leaf.

SlowApe said:

I took the vehicle to a second Nissan dealership after the first one flat out refused to warranty the battery. The second dealership needed some serious education too, but they were willing to listen, wanted to learn, and appreciated my business.

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Thanks for update. Which San Diego dealership did you take it to? I did my battery warranty replacement at Mossy Nissan Kearny Mesa in San Diego.

awhile said:

SlowApe said:

I took the vehicle to a second Nissan dealership after the first one flat out refused to warranty the battery. The second dealership needed some serious education too, but they were willing to listen, wanted to learn, and appreciated my business.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. Which San Diego dealership did you take it to? I did my battery warranty replacement at Mossy Nissan Kearny Mesa in San Diego.

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Ended up at the Mossy Nissan dealership in Escondido. It took about a week to get the battery in stock, they called me and asked me to drop off the vehicle, three days later it was back and better than ever.

goldbrick said:

Congrats! You have a 40kWh battery in your car now, so it should have 133% of the range it had when new.

The QC and L1/L2 counters don't get reset when the battery is replaced so that is normal. Enjoy your better-than-new Leaf.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the education. Not really sure why the battery was already at 50% SOH, but am I correct to assume the 219 QC's had something to do with it?

SlowApe said:

Thank you everyone for all your help! Everything is back as it should be (and then some more I think?) As some of you may have previously read, I had a new to me 2017 (~27,500 miles) with SOH= ~55% and a range of 59 miles at 100% charge. I took the vehicle to a second Nissan dealership after the first one flat out refused to warranty the battery. The second dealership needed some serious education too, but they were willing to listen, wanted to learn, and appreciated my business. It took three days for them to warranty the battery and I just picked it up. Here are the stats...

I only drove it a couple of miles home so I am not sure if it needs to be driven farther before more "learning" occurs between the car and the new battery?

The other thing that really puzzles me is the number of QC's and L1/L2s that are on the battery? Could that be accurate?

Thanks again for everyone's help. I am another warranty replacement/upgrade success.

Cheers,
Blake

Click to expand...

No more learning is needed, its all accurate

# of charges; You tell me. What did it say before the pack was replaced (which BTW does NOT reset the charge counter)

Considering the deals from 3rd Q 2016 to most of 2017, the 30 kwh LEAF is quickly becoming the greatest bargain in EV history... "if" you abused your pack sufficiently...

SlowApe said:

goldbrick said:

Congrats! You have a 40kWh battery in your car now, so it should have 133% of the range it had when new.

The QC and L1/L2 counters don't get reset when the battery is replaced so that is normal. Enjoy your better-than-new Leaf.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the education. Not really sure why the battery was already at 50% SOH, but am I correct to assume the 219 QC's had something to do with it?

Click to expand...

DC charging wouldn't do it. Mine had nearly 200 in just over a year and 30,000 miles and had 100% SOH. It was more likely charging to 100% and letting it sit out in the Sun.

DaveinOlyWA said:

No more learning is needed, it's all accurate

# of charges; You tell me. What did it say before the pack was replaced (which BTW does NOT reset the charge counter)

Considering the deals from 3rd Q 2016 to most of 2017, the 30 kWh LEAF is quickly becoming the greatest bargain in EV history... "if" you abused your pack sufficiently...

Click to expand...

Besides a few L1 charges by me, all those charges are from the previous owner. I appreciate the previous abuse and I'm happy to reap rewards. I picked this thing up for less than $10K, so I certainly agree with the "greatest bargain in EV history" statement!

DaveinOlyWA said:

DC charging wouldn't do it. Mine had nearly 200 in just over a year and 30,000 miles and had 100% SOH. It was more likely charging to 100% and letting it sit out in the Sun.

Click to expand...

Understood...from what I have read it's best to keep the battery topped off to 80% or less?

SlowApe said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

No more learning is needed, it's all accurate

# of charges; You tell me. What did it say before the pack was replaced (which BTW does NOT reset the charge counter)

Considering the deals from 3rd Q 2016 to most of 2017, the 30 kWh LEAF is quickly becoming the greatest bargain in EV history... "if" you abused your pack sufficiently...

Click to expand...

Besides a few L1 charges by me, all those charges are from the previous owner. I appreciate the previous abuse and I'm happy to reap rewards. I picked this thing up for less than $10K, so I certainly agree with the "greatest bargain in EV history" statement!

Click to expand...

LOL!! Thank you sir for destroying my battery! Can I have another! :lol: :lol:

SlowApe said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

DC charging wouldn't do it. Mine had nearly 200 in just over a year and 30,000 miles and had 100% SOH. It was more likely charging to 100% and letting it sit out in the Sun.

Click to expand...

Understood...from what I have read it's best to keep the battery topped off to 80% or less?

Click to expand...

Depends on your needs. If 50% will do it, then 50% is better. As far as "topping off?" You will need to make that call. How often do longer unplanned drives happen? I can say for me? Depends. In summer a few times a month but then again, its basically 80-100 miles verses the 20-30 miles I would expect to do. That equates to 40% SOC for me. But I can count on one hand when something unexpected came up that required me to rush out the door ASAP over the past decade. For those scenario's its all about grabbing a quick boost on the road somewhere and that is becoming easier every day especially now that 100 KW stations are now a thing.

Other things to consider; long term storage (which to me is more than a few days) the ideal is around half. Nissan shipped cars from Japan at 40% SOC verified with both of my 24 kwh cars (along with inept dealerships) so anywhere in that range is good.

I have reserved a 2017 SL on Carvana. A bit overpriced as Carvana usually is, but not bad. Sometimes they say "SL" and it turns out to be an S. Sometimes their error is in your favor. Local dealers don't have much in the way of used leafs and when they do they're not what I want, not a good battery, or no instrument cluster picture, or both.

Anyway, it has 9 bars and 40k miles. It was first delivered to Arizona which explains the 3 missing bars.

Is it a good bet that I'll get a free battery eventually? An upgrade to 40 kW? I haven't been paying attention to the on again off again (? ) warranty replacement battery situation.

Been researching and watching prices go down for 2 years now, and soon will be commuting again at least part time. I don't need my Pathfinder to commute by myself, and the EV would extend the life of my ICE family hauler.

Also the lease deals on a 2020 are tempting now. 360/month on an SL plus near me.... I don't need to replace my ICE cars so I don't need all that range.

The 2017 Leafs need to have a firmware update made before Nissan will honor the battery warranty. You can check the firmware revision with LeafSpy or ask a dealer if it has been done on your car using the VIN. Usually, the firmware update will restore some bars so all bets are off until that is done.

The 30kWh pack has been discontinued by Nissan so all replacements that I have heard about have been 40kWh packs. There is nothing in writing to guarantee that but so far that is how it seems to be operating. Best of luck and enjoy your Leaf.

Thanks good to know. Is the battery warranty 8 years, so assuming it was originally purchased some time in 2016 at the earliest, I would have at least until 2024? Didn't pull the trigger just yet, so I might lose it. Someone bought it and then likely returned it in their 7 day window.