WetEV
Well-known member
The LEAF is the second largest EV by total sales. I'd say that is pretty successful.jake14mw said:
Nissan LEAF Death Watch
- Thread starter SageBrush
- Start date
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DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
WetEV said:
In a period of a week, Bolt and Kona under investigation for battery fires. Bolt is getting increased scrutiny only at this point but all 77,000 Kona's have been recalled. It is the TMS Trade off.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
What exactly are you implying? That Kona has nothing better to do than recall all their cars because it could be an ownership issue or an environmental issue or it was simply a slow Tuesday and they couldn't find anything else to do?
jake14mw
Well-known member
WetEV said:
God bless Nissan. The Leaf provided a way for Americans to purchase a somewhat affordable EV. I'm greatful for that. The Leaf that I bought second hand got me into EVs. But ask Nissan how successful the Leaf was for them. Both the Nissan and GM maxed out highest EV sales months at around 3,000 cars. That's nothing in the car industry. Tesla is averaging about 46,000 EV sales per month. The Leaf had decent EV sales early because there was pent up demand and not many other choices.
There is NO other EV that has significant sales in the US other than Tesla. Not one. Tesla has 82% of the EV market in the US. The first model year for the Leaf was 2011. It's 2020. I loved my 2014 Leaf, but the Leaf is a complete non-factor in 2020.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
jake14mw said:
That that 2014 love and triple it. That is 2020 and likely cheaper too.
WetEV
Well-known member
jake14mw said:
The US isn't the only market, or even the largest market. The world has changed.
jake14mw
Well-known member
WetEV said:
Never claimed it was. Big world out there.
frontrangeleaf
Well-known member
I still don't understand the obsession with DCFC.
Two thirds of American households own their own home, give or take. Nearly as many have 2 cars (57%). Most don't need to make cross-country or even lengthy trips away from home with _both_ cars. We also know that very few regularly drive more than a few dozen miles a day.
Even after you factor in reductions for finding all the households that own their own home AND have 2 cars AND never make lengthy trips with both cars, etc, that's still a large addressable market for a gen2 Leaf. Gen1 not so much, at least less so after cold weather concerns, battery degradation over time etc, etc. Folks starting and ending the vast majority of their days in any given year at home, where they have access to a garage, and can plug in. They don't regularly need anywhere near the range available in today's offerings either. Cold weather, whatever. Not a factor.
Who cares about DCFC?
Only those who are looking to replace their last ICE vehicle with an EV. Today, that's not the big part of the market. That comes later. Much later.
But here we sit bashing the Leaf as woefully inadequate. Wringing our hands over Chademo's imminent demise. Talking about Death Watches.
It's an electric Corolla, and a damn nice one at that. A damn sight nicer than any Corolla ever sold. What's wrong with that?
My son has been driving our Leaf SL+ for Grubhub in the pandemic. Last month we put 750 miles on, and spent a whopping $14 in electric charging it. Overnight we pay about 8 cents a kwh. This car is ridiculously cheap to operate, at least in our state. He can work for hours and never need to stop for charge. IT'S A NON FACTOR. Gosh, at some point I'll have to buy tires for it... let me obsess over those costs for a while...
Nope, not ever gonna be the everybody's car. Nope, they don't sell like popcorn. And that's partly a function of folks choosing willful ignorance and just sheer laziness. And unfounded fears. Like you get from reading about Death Watches...
Lordy. Just use if for what it's good for already.
Two thirds of American households own their own home, give or take. Nearly as many have 2 cars (57%). Most don't need to make cross-country or even lengthy trips away from home with _both_ cars. We also know that very few regularly drive more than a few dozen miles a day.
Even after you factor in reductions for finding all the households that own their own home AND have 2 cars AND never make lengthy trips with both cars, etc, that's still a large addressable market for a gen2 Leaf. Gen1 not so much, at least less so after cold weather concerns, battery degradation over time etc, etc. Folks starting and ending the vast majority of their days in any given year at home, where they have access to a garage, and can plug in. They don't regularly need anywhere near the range available in today's offerings either. Cold weather, whatever. Not a factor.
Who cares about DCFC?
Only those who are looking to replace their last ICE vehicle with an EV. Today, that's not the big part of the market. That comes later. Much later.
But here we sit bashing the Leaf as woefully inadequate. Wringing our hands over Chademo's imminent demise. Talking about Death Watches.
It's an electric Corolla, and a damn nice one at that. A damn sight nicer than any Corolla ever sold. What's wrong with that?
My son has been driving our Leaf SL+ for Grubhub in the pandemic. Last month we put 750 miles on, and spent a whopping $14 in electric charging it. Overnight we pay about 8 cents a kwh. This car is ridiculously cheap to operate, at least in our state. He can work for hours and never need to stop for charge. IT'S A NON FACTOR. Gosh, at some point I'll have to buy tires for it... let me obsess over those costs for a while...
Nope, not ever gonna be the everybody's car. Nope, they don't sell like popcorn. And that's partly a function of folks choosing willful ignorance and just sheer laziness. And unfounded fears. Like you get from reading about Death Watches...
Lordy. Just use if for what it's good for already.
cwerdna
Well-known member
You should see that chatter on Bolt FB groups. Whenever someone is about to buy/lease one new or used, tons of people will chime in saying make sure it has the optional DC FC inlet (CCS on Bolt) and that DC FC inlet is a MUST on a Bolt... blah blah. They drown out the dissenters every single time.frontrangeleaf said:
That said, not having it can cause issues at resale or in terms of resale value due to the perceived "need" for it.
As for death watch, in the US (a probably a few other markets), its sales are being decimated by Tesla. Sales have really declined in the US vs. Leaf's better days. Once the current gen becomes old, Nissan may not find a compelling business case to redesign it (due to lack of economies of scale) so it might go away.
Bolt isn't eligible for Federal tax credit in the US any longer yet it is selling significantly better than Leaf.
https://insideevs.com/news/446871/q3-2020-chevrolet-bolt-ev-sales-us/ - 5682 vs.
https://insideevs.com/news/447171/us-nissan-leaf-q3-2020-sales/ - 1916
I think that for a second or third car, DCFC is optional for an EV. If it's going to be the only or primary car, though, and DCFC is available locally, it would be foolish to not get it. If having just one car next year doesn't work out, I'll be looking for a cheap lease for an S - with no Charge Package if that saves me money.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Totally agree... but oh boy, you should see those people on Bolt FB groups. :roll: They don't even ask about other cars in the household, where (there might not even be any DC FCs within 150+ miles), use cases, etc. They just say it's a MUST!LeftieBiker said:
goldbrick
Well-known member
I'd go as far as saying L2 even isn't a must have, at least for me. I'm using the L1 charger that came with my 2017 Leaf now mostly to charge. I used to use free L2 at work but now charge mostly at home. And.....it's great. I wait until the car is below 25% SOC and then plug it in overnight. When I leave in the morning, it's usually about 80%. I plug in early or later depending on starting SOC but it's been easy to keep the final SOC between 65% and 85% when I leave. That is usually good for 2 days of commuting for me but if I do a bunch of errands or whatever, it is almost always still good enough for a day. And yeah, if I'm heading to the San Rafael swell or something I'll take an ICE car but for 95% of my days, a Leaf and L1 are just fine. I agree that doesn't work everyone but it would be probably work for a few million households in the US, at least. My folks are in the same boat although my dad just put in L2 and now charges his 2013 Leaf in a few hours, even though he only drives once or twice a day.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Seriously? DC or not DC? Get a Plus and stop the debate!
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
This belongs in the ev charger thread, but in spite of a waining Leaf, so many new Chademos appearing in Michigan and Iowa. We even got a new 4 stall Chademo in Pontiac IL.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Ya know only EA has a balance issue and its not hard to figure out why. It cracks me up when a Soul and two LEAFs are waiting at Walmart while 5 other stations sit unused.
But one thing I have noticed; it looks like it takes about 5 empty stations to find one CCS that works.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
EA ststions break alot. No idea why. I have yet to have a problem at a evgo station. I have found many broken EA chademos. Ccs are just as bad, they just have more of them. The landscape is changing now very fast. Des Moines has 4 choices now. Even Ames is getting a Chademo.
I see more plugshare station owners advertising tesla adapters too.
Leaf is back at #2 this month in Norway so far. Its even ahead of Kona, which I find amazing.
https://elbilstatistikk.no/
I see more plugshare station owners advertising tesla adapters too.
Leaf is back at #2 this month in Norway so far. Its even ahead of Kona, which I find amazing.
https://elbilstatistikk.no/
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Well, I have had to do 2 tries a few times, 3 tries once and one time the station was just dead but that is about the sum of issues I have had. But lately, its been bad. I was swinging by the West Olympia location today and there was 3 drivers there all talking and only one charging so when I came up they said at least yours "might" work because we could only get the one station to work and it wasn't the combo station. One guy stated he was there nearly every day and first time he has had issues with all 4 stations before.
We are certainly on death watch but I do see a glimmer of light when looking at plugshare along the US East coast and down I-75 into Florida. There are a TON of Chargepoint CPE-250's with dual chademo ports (2 per site!) under construction now that show as "Coming Soon".
Chargepoint is about to go public so I suspect they have a good amount of money coming in. We have some time left.
Chargepoint is about to go public so I suspect they have a good amount of money coming in. We have some time left.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Go look at Michigan in plugshare. Enable the "coming soon" chargers in your filters. Chargepoint is lighting up the whole state... all with double (or more) Chademos.