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Still more BC Hydro sites going in on another major corridor. Pretty isolated area and some are just single phase 25 KW units because of their isolated locations but all are single or dual Chademo/CCS units. As long as Tesla is around the need for Chademo will be there as they are the biggest Chademo users up here.

Many of these new sites won’t be finished till spring of 2021 now. But I think the next effort will be 97 corridor to Alaska north of Prince George. It might not be done by this time next year but I bet you it will be sited. Unfortunately I think many will be the slower single phase units as that is what they have available in many of these remote locations. Meh. Better than walking. :).
 
frontrangeleaf said:
Who cares about DCFC?
Only those who are looking to replace their last ICE vehicle with an EV. Today, that's not the big part of the market. That comes later. Much later.
Click to expand...
I was at a public L2 station this week getting some charge into our LEAF for the drive home. I cannot remember the last time I used public L2 charging but that is a different story ...
Anyway, a Fiat 500e pulled up and I chatted with the owner. He lived in an Apt complex nearby and would spend ~ 3.5 hours about once a week L2 charging at this public spot because his Apt refused to accommodate his car. I applauded his dedication to EV, but he corrected me. He said he lived on SS and disability, and had lost his prior car when he fell behind in payments. While looking for cheap cars on the Enterprise rental website he came across this 2017 Fiat for $8,000. He had never heard of a "500e" model and was flummoxed to find out that it was an EV. In the end, the cheap price won out over his reticence and he bought the car.

~ 100 EPA range
No DCFC
No service for the car in my city, perhaps not for a thousand miles until CA

Sounds bad, right ? He is happy, since he has gone from car-less to driving around in a peppy car for pennies a mile. He goes to local EV car shows to show off his car. The moral here is that an $8,000 local EV is GREAT, warts and all. A $20,000 local EV is seekret code for BK.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Go look at Michigan in plugshare. Enable the "coming soon" chargers in your filters. Chargepoint is lighting up the whole state... all with double (or more) Chademos.
Click to expand...

Wow, I just looked at Michigan. You're not joking when you say "the state".
With the Ariya going to CCS and Tesla having so much growth, it's going to be hilariously ironic if we end up having the most exclusive DC charging network.
 
Teslas use Chademos heavily, in spite of reports to the contrary, especially those at the highway plazas. Combined, Leafs and Teslas represent the vast majority of EVs on the road in the US today.

That has started to shift, and will accelerate next year with ID4, MachE, etc. But yes for now, enjoy the next 3 years.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Teslas use Chademos heavily, in spite of reports to the contrary, especially those at the highway plazas. Combined, Leafs and Teslas represent the vast majority of EVs on the road in the US today.

That has started to shift, and will accelerate next year with ID4, MachE, etc. But yes for now, enjoy the next 3 years.
Click to expand...

Absolutely Doug. Chademo is key to the provincial governments vehicle electrification strategy here, mostly because the majority of EV’s on the road use Chademo...and that would be Tesla and Leaf in that order. As long as Tesla is Chademo compatible Chademo will be an important part of the provincial EV strategy. And Tesla hasn’t given any indication of going CCS in North America.

Jmho.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Teslas use Chademos heavily, in spite of reports to the contrary, especially those at the highway plazas.
Click to expand...
I really doubt "heavily". I think a Tesla driver would use a CHAdeMO if and only if they lived in an area where there were more CHAdeMOs than SuperChargers, and that happens to be far and few between, especially given all the SuC build out in 2018 and 2019. Certainly up and down the east coast and into New England, can't imagine lots of Tesla drivers using CHAdeMOs "heavily". But you can keep believing this if it makes you happy.
 
jlv said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
Teslas use Chademos heavily, in spite of reports to the contrary, especially those at the highway plazas.
Click to expand...
I really doubt "heavily". I think a Tesla driver would use a CHAdeMO if and only if they lived in an area where there were more CHAdeMOs than SuperChargers, and that happens to be far and few between, especially given all the SuC build out in 2018 and 2019. Certainly up and down the east coast and into New England, can't imagine lots of Tesla drivers using CHAdeMOs "heavily". But you can keep believing this if it makes you happy.
Click to expand...
Yep (not including Canada).

Superchargers are *much* more reliable than CHAdeMO, in another league when it comes to power, and cheaper than EA. If Doug is seeing a couple Tesla at a CHAdeMO station it is more than likely because they are free ... and you can always find a few people who will act irrationally to save a few pennies. That situation is a sliver of the overall situation.

There are probably a dozen (if not more )Tesla owners that still read this forum. How many own a CHAdeMO adapter ? I don't, and I don't know any Tesla owner that does. That includes all the people I have talked to at the Tesla owners club. If Nissan bought the adapter for Tesla owners the CHAdeMO usage would improve a little, but at $500 ? Doug is living in la la land.
 
jlv said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
Teslas use Chademos heavily, in spite of reports to the contrary, especially those at the highway plazas.
Click to expand...
I really doubt "heavily". I think a Tesla driver would use a CHAdeMO if and only if they lived in an area where there were more CHAdeMOs than SuperChargers, and that happens to be far and few between, especially given all the SuC build out in 2018 and 2019. Certainly up and down the east coast and into New England, can't imagine lots of Tesla drivers using CHAdeMOs "heavily". But you can keep believing this if it makes you happy.
Click to expand...

Charging station density varies considerably. You are in one of the highest density areas for all charging station providers. I would expect little if any Teslas using Chademo as well. That is not true everywhere.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
In a period of a week, Bolt and Kona under investigation for battery fires. Bolt is getting increased scrutiny only at this point but all 77,000 Kona's have been recalled. It is the TMS Trade off.
Click to expand...
How do you know that before the investigation has some answers ? Can you not think of other possibilities ?

Riddle: what is a Bolt with an inoperable TMS ?
Answer: A LEAF
Click to expand...

What exactly are you implying? That Kona has nothing better to do than recall all their cars because it could be an ownership issue or an environmental issue or it was simply a slow Tuesday and they couldn't find anything else to do?
Click to expand...
Slow today, I see.

I'm saying that TMS is only one of many possible reasons.
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
SageBrush said:
How do you know that before the investigation has some answers ? Can you not think of other possibilities ?

Riddle: what is a Bolt with an inoperable TMS ?
Answer: A LEAF
Click to expand...

What exactly are you implying? That Kona has nothing better to do than recall all their cars because it could be an ownership issue or an environmental issue or it was simply a slow Tuesday and they couldn't find anything else to do?
Click to expand...
Slow today, I see.

I'm saying that TMS is only one of many possible reasons.
Click to expand...

OIC. You are referring to the "other" fires. Yeah, one was bad wiring, another was out of code EVSE install and another originated elsewhere in the garage and the car was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
What exactly are you implying? That Kona has nothing better to do than recall all their cars because it could be an ownership issue or an environmental issue or it was simply a slow Tuesday and they couldn't find anything else to do?
Click to expand...
Slow today, I see.

I'm saying that TMS is only one of many possible reasons.
Click to expand...

OIC. You are referring to the "other" fires. Yeah, one was bad wiring, another was out of code EVSE install and another originated elsewhere in the garage and the car was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Click to expand...
NO, I am saying that battery manufacturing defects that lead to a higher fire risk do not have to have anything to do with the TMS. Actually, I am not aware of *any* battery fires due to the TMS. So your statement that that the fires reflected a trade-off in having a TMS is at best ignorant BS with a heavy dose of FUD
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
SageBrush said:
Slow today, I see.

I'm saying that TMS is only one of many possible reasons.
Click to expand...

OIC. You are referring to the "other" fires. Yeah, one was bad wiring, another was out of code EVSE install and another originated elsewhere in the garage and the car was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Click to expand...
NO, I am saying that battery manufacturing defects that lead to a higher fire risk do not have to have anything to do with the TMS. Actually, I am not aware of *any* battery fires due to the TMS. So your statement that that the fires reflected a trade-off in having a TMS is at best ignorant BS with a heavy dose of FUD
Click to expand...

So the presence of TMS has allowed manufacturers to push the limits of the batteries? Perhaps. Manufacturing defects is the likely culprit here and saying the additional complexity of adding TMS isn't a factor is "interesting"
 
SageBrush said:
There are probably a dozen (if not more )Tesla owners that still read this forum. How many own a CHAdeMO adapter ? I don't, and I don't know any Tesla owner that does. That includes all the people I have talked to at the Tesla owners club. If Nissan bought the adapter for Tesla owners the CHAdeMO usage would improve a little, but at $500 ? Doug is living in la la land.
Click to expand...
I asked at work if any of the 75+ Tesla owners (most have a Model 3) own a CHAdeMO adapter. Not one does. There's no need for it in all of the north east US.

The adapter could be of use if you are heading into Canada, as there are more CHAdeMOs than SuCs in most of the area. I looked at getting one when we were planning a trip to PEI, but we were mostly going to be biking and not using the car, and I realized I could make do without it.

In fact, I know of exactly one person who owns a CHAdeMO adapter. He bought it nearly 6 years ago for a possible trip to Toronto in his Model S. Back then CHAdeMO definitely had more reach than the SuperCharger network. However, he never went and the adapter has never been used.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
OIC. You are referring to the "other" fires. Yeah, one was bad wiring, another was out of code EVSE install and another originated elsewhere in the garage and the car was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Click to expand...
NO, I am saying that battery manufacturing defects that lead to a higher fire risk do not have to have anything to do with the TMS. Actually, I am not aware of *any* battery fires due to the TMS. So your statement that that the fires reflected a trade-off in having a TMS is at best ignorant BS with a heavy dose of FUD
Click to expand...

So the presence of TMS has allowed manufacturers to push the limits of the batteries? Perhaps. Manufacturing defects is the likely culprit here and saying the additional complexity of adding TMS isn't a factor is "interesting"
Click to expand...
More BS. I'm saying you cannot possibly know until the investigation into the Kona is published. In the meantime you are welcome to post past investigations that have implicated the TMS as the cause or major contributor to the battery fire.

From my reading (I am not an EE), while Li-x battery fires in EVs are rare compared to ICE vehicles, they have occurred from either cracked wire insulation of disruption of the electrodes separator, both leading to shorts. You will notice that neither major cause has squat to do with the BMS. Moreover, water extinguishes Li fire so the BMS is in fact a fire retardant.

So where is the sliver of truth in all your nonsense (there has to be something, right ?) Well, LMO battery chemistry has a higher flash point than NMC. That lets Nissan build a cheaper battery without TMS but it carries the trade-offs of worse degradation and low power DC fast charging. An LMO battery with TMS would have less fire risk than an LMO battery without TMS. In a similar fashion, an NMC battery with hobbled max current will have a lower fire risk than one used in a high power environment like a Tesla.

In summary, the TMS adds safety. LMO is inherently safer than NMC but it carries performance penalties when used as a cost cutting device.
 
jlv said:
SageBrush said:
There are probably a dozen (if not more )Tesla owners that still read this forum. How many own a CHAdeMO adapter ? I don't, and I don't know any Tesla owner that does. That includes all the people I have talked to at the Tesla owners club. If Nissan bought the adapter for Tesla owners the CHAdeMO usage would improve a little, but at $500 ? Doug is living in la la land.
Click to expand...
I asked at work if any of the 75+ Tesla owners (most have a Model 3) own a CHAdeMO adapter. Not one does. There's no need for it in all of the north east US.
Click to expand...
Yep.

I live in NM where Supercharger density is only a small fraction of the northeast US and my experience mirrors yours: Finding a CHAdeMO adapter is about as likely as a unicorn hiding in the frunk.
 
jlv said:
SageBrush said:
There are probably a dozen (if not more )Tesla owners that still read this forum. How many own a CHAdeMO adapter ? I don't, and I don't know any Tesla owner that does. That includes all the people I have talked to at the Tesla owners club. If Nissan bought the adapter for Tesla owners the CHAdeMO usage would improve a little, but at $500 ? Doug is living in la la land.
Click to expand...
I asked at work if any of the 75+ Tesla owners (most have a Model 3) own a CHAdeMO adapter. Not one does. There's no need for it in all of the north east US.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I'm in the SF Bay Area and although I don't personally know these folks, these guys use the CHAdeMO adapter w/their Teslas:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ccs-adapter-for-north-america.165490/page-9#post-4846217 - he gets free juice via DrivetheARC
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chademo-charging-the-model-3.160882/page-8#post-4982060 - he uses a new 19 cent/kWh dual-standard DC that opened up. As he noted at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chademo-charging-the-model-3.160882/page-8#post-4983575, it is cheaper than using nearby Superchargers. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Santa+Clara+Valley+Water+District,+5750+Almaden+Expy,+San+Jose,+CA+95118/Tesla+Supercharger,+5185+Cherry+Ave,+San+Jose,+CA+95118/Tesla+Supercharger,+1375+Blossom+Hill+Rd,+San+Jose,+CA+95118/@37.2510252,-121.8895535,15z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e33f6e53eee15:0xec22dcb1ceecf8b!2m2!1d-121.8735696!2d37.2483293!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e3323fe559813:0xcd0208ffe1145f63!2m2!1d-121.8714833!2d37.2585664!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e33fd2f632f1b:0x24b913f65a88832!2m2!1d-121.8911455!2d37.2445995 has the 3 locations. Water District has the 19 cent/kWh DC FC (and J1772s).

I noted seeing a guy w/a Model X use his CHAdeMO adapter at DrivetheARC (https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30793&p=590125&hilit=chademo+model+x#p590125).
 
cwerdna said:
jlv said:
SageBrush said:
There are probably a dozen (if not more )Tesla owners that still read this forum. How many own a CHAdeMO adapter ? I don't, and I don't know any Tesla owner that does. That includes all the people I have talked to at the Tesla owners club. If Nissan bought the adapter for Tesla owners the CHAdeMO usage would improve a little, but at $500 ? Doug is living in la la land.
Click to expand...
I asked at work if any of the 75+ Tesla owners (most have a Model 3) own a CHAdeMO adapter. Not one does. There's no need for it in all of the north east US.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I'm in the SF Bay Area and although I don't personally know these folks, these guys use the CHAdeMO adapter w/their Teslas:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ccs-adapter-for-north-america.165490/page-9#post-4846217 - he gets free juice via DrivetheARC
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chademo-charging-the-model-3.160882/page-8#post-4982060 - he uses a new 19 cent/kWh dual-standard DC that opened up. As he noted at https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chademo-charging-the-model-3.160882/page-8#post-4983575, it is cheaper than using nearby Superchargers. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Santa+Clara+Valley+Water+District,+5750+Almaden+Expy,+San+Jose,+CA+95118/Tesla+Supercharger,+5185+Cherry+Ave,+San+Jose,+CA+95118/Tesla+Supercharger,+1375+Blossom+Hill+Rd,+San+Jose,+CA+95118/@37.2510252,-121.8895535,15z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e33f6e53eee15:0xec22dcb1ceecf8b!2m2!1d-121.8735696!2d37.2483293!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e3323fe559813:0xcd0208ffe1145f63!2m2!1d-121.8714833!2d37.2585664!1m5!1m1!1s0x808e33fd2f632f1b:0x24b913f65a88832!2m2!1d-121.8911455!2d37.2445995 has the 3 locations. Water District has the 19 cent/kWh DC FC (and J1772s).

I noted seeing a guy w/a Model X use his CHAdeMO adapter at DrivetheARC (https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30793&p=590125&hilit=chademo+model+x#p590125).
Click to expand...

We have a few dozen free level 2's scattered thru out the area and ALL types of cars use them including Tesla's. I was expecting a lesser representation of Tesla's when the Tumwater SC opened (about 5ish miles south off I-5 but that didn't seem to change much. Target/Lacey is adding a bunch like 12 or so? We shall see how much that changes things.

I always cruise the 6 Volta's at Capital Mall to see who is using them and its a rare site to not see at least one Tesla. Can't we simply ask Tesla how many adapters they have sold? Guessing if the numbers were that bad then why add the T3?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Can't we simply ask Tesla how many adapters they have sold? Guessing if the numbers were that bad then why add the T3?
Click to expand...
Ask Tesla.
My *guess* is that it was relatively easy to do; and it seems clear that Canadian Tesla owners were strong advocates.
Anyway, Tesla does things only a small fraction of car owners care about , let alone are willing to pay for. How many Tesla Model 3 owners own a key fob ?
 
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Can't we simply ask Tesla how many adapters they have sold? Guessing if the numbers were that bad then why add the T3?
Click to expand...
Ask Tesla.
My *guess* is that it was relatively easy to do; and it seems clear that Canadian Tesla owners were strong advocates.
Anyway, Tesla does things only a small fraction of car owners care about , let alone are willing to pay for. How many Tesla Model 3 owners own a key fob ?
Click to expand...

My take is that Tesla didn't see the need maybe due to low demand? which is why the T3 wasn't launched with the option and people complained so they added it. I am sure it was nothing more than a SW tweak so yeah low hanging fruit move. Its not like Tesla doesn't provide a lot of stuff that is not functional, just cute.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Can't we simply ask Tesla how many adapters they have sold? Guessing if the numbers were that bad then why add the T3?
Click to expand...
Ask Tesla.
My *guess* is that it was relatively easy to do; and it seems clear that Canadian Tesla owners were strong advocates.
Anyway, Tesla does things only a small fraction of car owners care about , let alone are willing to pay for. How many Tesla Model 3 owners own a key fob ?
Click to expand...

My take is that Tesla didn't see the need maybe due to low demand? which is why the T3 wasn't launched with the option and people complained so they added it. I am sure it was nothing more than a SW tweak so yeah low hanging fruit move. Its not like Tesla doesn't provide a lot of stuff that is not functional, just cute.
Click to expand...
The Model 3 certainly had a 'to do' list when it launched. The CHAdeMO adapter was in that list from day #1 but clearly was not a priority. Our northern neighbors may have made enough noise to bump the adapter up a few spots in the queue. One way or another, the adapter is a rare bird in the wild outside of Canada
 

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