Two points:
* Many EVs are not used daily, and some not even weekly.
* There is anecdotal evidence that the Leaf does a better job of charging higher capacity lead batteries than it does lower capacity lead batteries.
12v Battery Recommendations
- Thread starter Supersleeper
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Two points:
* Many EVs are not used daily, and some not even weekly.
* There is anecdotal evidence that the Leaf does a better job of charging higher capacity lead batteries than it does lower capacity lead batteries.
Stanton
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
But they do the best job of charging LiFePO4 12v batteries
At the end of the day, you can't "fix" the inherent problems of Lead Acid batteries...and there are many more (good) Lithium options now than when I installed my LiFePO4 12v over 5 years ago.
Stanton said:LeftieBiker said:
But they do the best job of charging LiFePO4 12v batteries
At the end of the day, you can't "fix" the inherent problems of Lead Acid batteries...and there are many more (good) Lithium options now than when I installed my LiFePO4 12v over 5 years ago.
I assume that this is because lithium batteries have a charging profile that fits the Leaf's charging algorithm well. Since better AGM batteries also work, and cost much less, that's the route I suggest for most people. The Leaf may well have been initially designed for a lithium accessory battery. We can at least be fairly sure that it wasn't designed to sue a cheap little starting battery.
I have a $5000 2012 leaf with 60k and all 12 bars. I've been chasing down a parasitic drain for last 6 months, finally changed to a new (From Costco %80) Lead acid battery that seem to work fine at first but now with the cold weather for the past two months it goes dead after a few days. Putting a multimeter on the batter gives me only about 10.5 volts after 6h or driving the car. After messing about with an ammeter it seems to be a bit better now.
So what are my options?
Nissan wants $300 just to diagnose it. I could put in a Yellow top but they seem to be crap quality. I am game to put in a bigger capacity lead acid battery. Would even consider a 12V LiFePO4 up to $200 but what brand / mode to buy? It would be nice to find the issue though!
- I've had the battery load tested - seemed OK.
- I've attached an Ammeter looked at the supposed set of relays that seem to pull excess current - got standby the amperage down a bit by swapping two identical relays with each other!
- I have trickle charge it and this seems to work but it's a pain to keep opening the hood - I did have a lead that I thread to the out side of the car at one stage
- The new battery did get really flat a few times and I noticed that the plates on the last cell were really empty of electrolyte and looked a little pitted so perhaps the battery is toast even if the load test says otherwise?
So what are my options?
Nissan wants $300 just to diagnose it. I could put in a Yellow top but they seem to be crap quality. I am game to put in a bigger capacity lead acid battery. Would even consider a 12V LiFePO4 up to $200 but what brand / mode to buy? It would be nice to find the issue though!
Gigawatt said:
What is the actual current measurement? It should be less than 100ma, typically around 25-50ma.
For a very basic calculation of a time period without charging and to be able to "start" the Leaf:
Assume a 50Ahr battery rating at 1/2 capacity & 100ma (.10 amps);
Time (days) = 50Ahr/2/.10amps/24hrs ~= 10days, Obviously less for the typical small Leaf battery rating used.
I suspect something is keeping the car from going into "sleep" mode so the residual current from the 12V battery is higher than normal. On top of that, 2011 and 2012 models only turn on the DC-DC converter for 5 minutes every 5 days when parked and they will not initiate the 5-minute charge (or 5-day timing cycle for charging) if the car does not go to sleep. This makes them more prone to deeply discharging their 12V batteries. I personally left my 2011 parked for extended time without issue except for the one time I forgot to unplug the Bluetooth adapter from the OBDII port and left an Android device running Leaf Spy on the passenger seat. I came back to a completely dead 12V battery after only 6 days. Although I replaced it before it drained the battery too far, I had the little relay which powers the electric shift control module stick in the energized position a few times. The increased residual current to keep that module energized would have drained the 12V battery if the car were parked for more than a couple of days.
Check to make sure that all doors and the hatch are securely closed when parking. Also, unplug device(s) plugged into the OBDII port when parking for more than a day or two. If you can measure excessive discharge current with an accurate ammeter, you can try pulling one fuse at a time until you find the circuit which is drawing too much current.
Check to make sure that all doors and the hatch are securely closed when parking. Also, unplug device(s) plugged into the OBDII port when parking for more than a day or two. If you can measure excessive discharge current with an accurate ammeter, you can try pulling one fuse at a time until you find the circuit which is drawing too much current.
As of mid 2020, Toyota is outfitting its 'harrier' (Venza) hybrid with "Li" batteries from Yuasa. I am guessing that these are LiFP since the spec has charge/discharge down to minus 30C. That model has a 1500 watt, 120 volt accessory port, which I presume is the reason to outfit the car with a deep cycle, LiFP battery.
If I can find the battery for sale locally I'll look more into its specs
If I can find the battery for sale locally I'll look more into its specs
I did the Ammeter / fuse removal thing and didn't see that any circuit was the culprit really. Perhaps I'll give it another try. I have all interior light replaced with LED bulbs and I turn them all off when doing the test.
What should the 12v batter read voltage wise, my batter sits around 10.5v, climbs to 14 when charing by leaf. Perhaps a dead cell. It should read 12.6v right after turning the car off.
What should the 12v batter read voltage wise, my batter sits around 10.5v, climbs to 14 when charing by leaf. Perhaps a dead cell. It should read 12.6v right after turning the car off.
10.5 volts is essentially a dead battery. I'm surprised that the car works.
Yes and 12.6v - 2.1v (dead cell) = 10.5v. What do most folks see at the battery terminals, should be the std lead acid voltage of 12.6v.
I'm pretty sure the battery charges up to 12v when I put it on the trickle charger when it's not connect to the cars 12v system though.
I am thinking I must of fried the new battery as it was flat a few times down to 7 volts over the fall, poor thing. Car was left on overnight or something like that. I did add new electrolite to the right most sell as it was pretty low like I said. Probably need to get it changed out at Costco and start from there. The load test worked fine so I may just have to spring for a new one $80 as I don't know how else I can prove it's defective if it reads 12v when charged.
Thanks for the feedback, I do still love this little $4000 car and for zipping around town even in the snow with its Nokians it's perfect, just with for 40 or so miles of range so we could take it to the ski area!
Also I am game just to get a bigger lead acid battery, guess need to know what will work size wise .
I'm pretty sure the battery charges up to 12v when I put it on the trickle charger when it's not connect to the cars 12v system though.
I am thinking I must of fried the new battery as it was flat a few times down to 7 volts over the fall, poor thing. Car was left on overnight or something like that. I did add new electrolite to the right most sell as it was pretty low like I said. Probably need to get it changed out at Costco and start from there. The load test worked fine so I may just have to spring for a new one $80 as I don't know how else I can prove it's defective if it reads 12v when charged.
Thanks for the feedback, I do still love this little $4000 car and for zipping around town even in the snow with its Nokians it's perfect, just with for 40 or so miles of range so we could take it to the ski area!
Also I am game just to get a bigger lead acid battery, guess need to know what will work size wise .
One cell low on electrolyte and low open-circuit voltage = bad battery. Charging current is boiling the water out of the electrolyte in that cell so if you keep trying to use it, you will have acid residue under the hood. Also, I don't see how it could pass a true load test.
I have a 12v Walmart replacement in my LEAF that charges up to ~ 12.6V with my trickle charger but then discharges down to 11.9V in about 10 days with 2 - 3 drives of 30 minutes each. I take this all to mean that the capacity is markedly reduced, and I am wondering if Walmart considers it eligible for a warranty replacement.
The store employee tells me that they perform a test that lasts ~ 1 hour and the machine is the judge. I'd like to know some details about the test before I bother with it. Anybody know the test protocol and thresholds for declaring a dead battery ?
The store employee tells me that they perform a test that lasts ~ 1 hour and the machine is the judge. I'd like to know some details about the test before I bother with it. Anybody know the test protocol and thresholds for declaring a dead battery ?
I assume that they use a device called a "Battery (capacity) Tester." I didn't know it took an hour, and I suspect it's more like half that. I'm going to use one on our sump pump backup battery.
Most auto parts/battery stores (assume Walmart would be the same) put a short-duration high current load on the battery and measure the voltage at that current. It is basically an attempt to determine if the battery can deliver engine cranking current without voltage dropping too low. I doubt if they perform an ampere-hour load test to determine energy storage capacity.
SageBrush said:
I think it's more what Gerry mentions below: the device places a brief high current load on the battery and looks at the voltage drop.
There is some correlation since capacity (also called reserve capacity) is measured in ampere-hours and CCA is amperes for 30 seconds without dropping below a voltage threshold. Both measurements depend upon the energy storage capability of the battery so both numbers drop as the battery deteriorates. When new, a starting battery will have high CCA and moderate reserve capacity numbers; a deep cycle battery of the same physical size will typically have lower CCA and higher reserve capacity numbers. Since an EV does not require large engine starting current, a deep cycle battery is a better choice to handle the small long-term residual current while parked.SageBrush said:
GerryAZ said:
Appreciated !
Back when I bought the 12v I skipped on the deep cycle detail (although even then I knew better) for Walmart convenience. Now I'm trying to decide whether to just dump the old 12v back at Walmart and buy a better 12v, or consider using the remaining 2.25 years of pro rata warranty ... if the 12v is even eligible. Can you hazard a guess how low the capacity would have to go before the 12v would fail the battery test ? I could easily monitor the drop in voltage that occurs when the headlights are on if that would be a useful predictor of the Walmart test.
Similar threads
