2018 40kWh Chademo charging at 1/2 stated kW rate

So I have only used the Chademo station at my dealer that's a 360V x100A so max 36kw charger although once I did see 38kw but anyways the last several times I have done a QC there it has taken WAY longer than it has historically & a few days ago I booted up LeafSpy & noticed that I was only seeing 1/2 the wattage charge rate that the car & charger was reporting.

The Charger walked the indicated charge rate from 36kW down to 24kW as my SOC went from 30ish% to 70ish% SOC and the battery temp did NOT climb hardly at all which anecdotally also correlates to the lower actual charge rate that LeafSpy was reporting.

So I was actually getting a 18kW charge and then as low as a 12kW charge. Temps were in the 50's F & the car was only driven 1 way for about 22 miles and then parked at Costco for about an hour before the 1 mile jaunt to the charger. Temp gauge was about 1/3 from L to R.

Back in Sept I had a battery check and a software update so I'm wondering if that is related...(Not the battery check)


Any ideas or others have the same thing happen?

Search for "rapidgate" and you will find many other instances of this.

LeftieBiker said:

Search for "rapidgate" and you will find many other instances of this.

Click to expand...

Leftie you CLEARLY either didn't read or comprehend my post. Rapidgate would NOT apply here. Battery was well below temp, was the 1st QC of the week much less day & I have used this specific QC charger over a dozen times without this issue happening so this is a new issue that is not a traditional rapidgate issue.

If anything if my dealer update my software to address the rapidgate issue then my charge rate would have increased not DECREASED.

I did read it. The first examples of slow DC charging were in England, with air temps in the fifties. I don't think the batteries were hot, either. Hot batteries are only part of the issue.

OP -- some clarity would help

Are you saying that the charging power reported by LeafSpy was ~ 1/2 the power reported by the charging station and the LEAF **at the same time** ?

If so,
One possibility is the difference between
1. The charger, which is reporting either power flowing through the meter or power flowing out of the charger;
2. LeafSpy, which I think is reporting power *into* the battery; and
3. The LEAF, which may be reporting power into the car -- which may be different than the power into the battery.


---
I'm not sure my story is applicable, but as an example of how these power displays can markedly differ:
I plugged in my Tesla on a cold day to my home EVSE which is rated for 32 Amps. The car display said that 16 of 32 max Amps were pulled from the EVSE, and *two* amps were going to the battery. I was confused so I looked at SMT (similar to LeafSpy) which also reported 2 amps to the battery, but a large power flow to the motors. This is the way my Tesla warms up the battery, so at that point I knew that my battery was cold and limiting charge; and second, that most of the power was being used for heating. After 10 minutes or so the Amp draw from the EVSE increased to 32/32 Amps and it all flowed to the battery.

---
I think that Lefty is correct and you experienced rapidgate --- but in this case from too COLD a battery. Your experience may also have included other heating power draws. I think LeafSpy also reports other heating draws under the ACC row.

I don't think I have used DCQC since my annual battery test in August (dealer did partial DCQC charge that day although I was not monitoring the car). Prior to that, the DCQC display matched the input power shown on the dash in front of the steering wheel for each quick charger I used. Leaf Spy shows two numbers--input to car and input to battery. The input to the battery is always a little less than the input to the car (a few hundred watts of auxiliary power is typical).

Go try it on a different fast charger. Find an ev connect or charge point or EA.

Eliminate the chance it's an issue with your dealers site first. That's what I would do anyway.

SageBrush said:

OP -- some clarity would help

Are you saying that the charging power reported by LeafSpy was ~ 1/2 the power reported by the charging station and the LEAF **at the same time** ?

I think that Lefty is correct and you experienced rapidgate --- but in this case from too COLD a battery. Your experience may also have included other heating power draws. I think LeafSpy also reports other heating draws under the ACC row.

Click to expand...

I arrived at the charger at around 28-31% SOC IIRC

The Charger was reporting 360V & 100A charge rate aka 36kW
The Leaf Dash was reporting 36kW charge rate & the corresponding charge time to 50%/75% was like 15min & 25min or something like that.

after about 20min the Dash SOC was showing in the 40%ish SOC so I knew that something was off & this time I had my iPad which is what I use LS Pro so I plugged in my OBD-II dongle and at this point the Charger & Dash was reporting a 28kW charge rate & LeafSpy was showing 14,xxx watts going into the battery & 100ish watts for accessories and intermittent 200-400watts for the climate system.

At this point in the charge session the battery temp sensors were in the 70'sF in LS Pro & the dash showed the temp gauge to be about 35-45% from L-R sioi it really should NOT be too cold & historically the battery after 20+ min of QC would absolutely be above 50% so that leads me to believe that the 1/2 rated charging had occurred during the entire charge.

The literal doubling of time to reach xx SOC reinforces that belief. The annoying part is the charge algorithm was tapering the charge rate based on the SOC% but with only 1/2 the actual current the cells were not heating up as fast although ironically if I have more time this is a "better" way to "fast" charge since it's less stressful to the pack

danrjones said:

Go try it on a different fast charger. Find an ev connect or charge point or EA.

Eliminate the chance it's an issue with your dealers site first. That's what I would do anyway.

Click to expand...

I'm going to go back to the dealer with a lower SOC but reasonable pack temp & log the whole charging session. I do have another QC charger I can try via a new EA station but will have to see what's involved to use/pay for said session. I'm also curious what the voltage of that charger is because that may provide a greater than 36kW charge rate which would be a 1st for me.

anecdotally I rarely QC & only do it because my dealer is across the street from Costco so I typically charge after shopping so it makes my trip 42 miles round trip "free" aside from time

HerdingElectrons said:

So I have only used the Chademo station at my dealer that's a 360V x100A so max 36kw charger although once I did see 38kw but anyways the last several times I have done a QC there it has taken WAY longer than it has historically & a few days ago I booted up LeafSpy & noticed that I was only seeing 1/2 the wattage charge rate that the car & charger was reporting.

The Charger walked the indicated charge rate from 36kW down to 24kW as my SOC went from 30ish% to 70ish% SOC and the battery temp did NOT climb hardly at all which anecdotally also correlates to the lower actual charge rate that LeafSpy was reporting.

So I was actually getting a 18kW charge and then as low as a 12kW charge. Temps were in the 50's F & the car was only driven 1 way for about 22 miles and then parked at Costco for about an hour before the 1 mile jaunt to the charger. Temp gauge was about 1/3 from L to R.

Back in Sept I had a battery check and a software update so I'm wondering if that is related...(Not the battery check)


Any ideas or others have the same thing happen?

Click to expand...

First off; the temp gauge is still 12 segments so I would edit your description to "4 TB's"

2nd off; There was a DC charge rate SW adjustment available and you MUST request it. Did you get that done?

3rd off; There is such a thing as IceGate (made up term by me) that controls when the knee happens on a DC charge. The colder the "pack" (not OAT), the lower the knee which means this post should have notated the SOC's involved with all these charging events.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/12/cold-verses-leaf.html

HerdingElectrons said:

So I have only used the Chademo station at my dealer that's a 360V x100A so max 36kw charger although once I did see 38kw but anyways the last several times I have done a QC there it has taken WAY longer than it has historically & a few days ago I booted up LeafSpy & noticed that I was only seeing 1/2 the wattage charge rate that the car & charger was reporting.

The Charger walked the indicated charge rate from 36kW down to 24kW as my SOC went from 30ish% to 70ish% SOC and the battery temp did NOT climb hardly at all which anecdotally also correlates to the lower actual charge rate that LeafSpy was reporting.

So I was actually getting a 18kW charge and then as low as a 12kW charge. Temps were in the 50's F & the car was only driven 1 way for about 22 miles and then parked at Costco for about an hour before the 1 mile jaunt to the charger. Temp gauge was about 1/3 from L to R.

Back in Sept I had a battery check and a software update so I'm wondering if that is related...(Not the battery check)


Any ideas or others have the same thing happen?

Click to expand...

If looking for a comparison to another 40KWh Leaf, the fastest DCFC peak charging rate I've observed has never been past 45KW according to graphs shown on ChargePoint's phone app. The charging curve usually builds gradually to that rate over several several minutes until roughly low-50'ish % SOC. That 45KW peak is a peak and have never observed a sustained plateau. Afterwards, the following down-slope I observe is relatively linear & gradual to about 18KW at roughly 85% SOC, and about 12KW at 90+% SOC. My last session was 50 minutes and took in 26.4 KWh, which represented 10% to 85% SOC, and chose to DCFC to rewarm the pack after leaving the car parked outside several days in 20F weather. So reasonable comparison on a stone-cold pack, took on 75% capacity averaging in low 20's KW rate.

I just completed a 46 minute DCFC charge on my 62 kWh battery. The charge rate varied--started at 43 kW (44.6 kW according to Leaf Spy); increased to above 45 kW; and tapered to 35 kW (34.7 kW according to Leaf Spy). The email from EVgo indicated elapsed time of 0:46:19 with 32.771 kWh delivered. Therefore, the energy reported by the DCQC station matched the dashboard display and information from Leaf Spy Pro.

Edited to add: Highest battery temperature before charging was 67.8 F and highest battery temperature after charging stopped was 94.0; SOC was 21% when charging started and 81% after charging stopped.

GerryAZ said:

I just completed a 46 minute DCFC charge on my 62 kWh battery. The charge rate varied--started at 43 kW (44.6 kW according to Leaf Spy); increased to above 45 kW; and tapered to 35 kW (34.7 kW according to Leaf Spy). The email from EVgo indicated elapsed time of 0:46:19 with 32.771 kWh delivered. Therefore, the energy reported by the DCQC station matched the dashboard display and information from Leaf Spy Pro.

Edited to add: Highest battery temperature before charging was 67.8 F and highest battery temperature after charging stopped was 94.0; SOC was 21% when charging started and 81% after charging stopped.

Click to expand...

Great example of TMS being a minimal benefit "most" of the time. I have seen the same although I never charge that long in one session, where it takes at least 327 miles leaving home at 18% SOC before seeing temps in triple digits...well, at least once it did

rogersleaf said:

If looking for a comparison to another 40KWh Leaf, the fastest DCFC peak charging rate I've observed has never been past 45KW according to graphs shown on ChargePoint's phone app. The charging curve usually builds gradually to that rate over several several minutes until roughly low-50'ish % SOC. That 45KW peak is a peak and have never observed a sustained plateau. Afterwards, the following down-slope I observe is relatively linear & gradual to about 18KW at roughly 85% SOC, and about 12KW at 90+% SOC. My last session was 50 minutes and took in 26.4 KWh, which represented 10% to 85% SOC, and chose to DCFC to rewarm the pack after leaving the car parked outside several days in 20F weather. So reasonable comparison on a stone-cold pack, took on 75% capacity averaging in low 20's KW rate.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. If you go back to that charger you should see on the charger itself a sticker that will label it as a 360V x 125A charger. That's why you get up to 45kW charge rates.

The only QC charger I have ever used is a 360V x 100A charger so my max charge rate will be 36kW & of course the typical taper as the reported SOC is sent back to the charger.

My issue/problem is my car is only charging at exactly 50% of the indicated charge rate that both the charger & the dash inside my car is displaying. This has happened 2-3x in total and all of the most recent sessions. This past charge was the 1st time I had the ability to load up Leaf Spy & confirm that that actual wattage going into the battery was 1/2 of indicated. The prior 1-2 sessions I simply noted that after the typical 15-30 min I would charge I had no where near the higher SOC I would have had from prior QC sessions at this same charger.

I will go back & log an entire charge session so everything will be better documented because I commenced troubleshooting after already being at the charger for like 30 min after I came back to the car after chatting with some dealership folks & discovered the car was nowhere near where it should have been relative to the time spent charging & the indicated charge rate.

DaveinOlyWA said:

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/12/cold-verses-leaf.html

Click to expand...

First off; the temp gauge is still 12 segments so I would edit your description to "4 TB's"

What are TB's temperature brackets? I haven't noticed it moving in blocks so I plead ignorance on this level. The car was parked in a low-mid 50'sF garage so presumably that is where the pack started in temp & likely was in the 60's from driving the 22 miles & then sitting at Costco for about an hour & the 30 min later at a reduced QC rate the pack was in the 70'sF. None of those temps seem particularly cold/freezing in my experience but I'm happy to be reeducated

2nd off; There was a DC charge rate SW adjustment available and you MUST request it. Did you get that done?

I did NOT specifically request since my usage doesn't require/warrant it to be done & the idea was pure conjecture since that is the only known to me change if any to the car to impact/effect the charge rate albeit seemingly negatively

3rd off; There is such a thing as IceGate (made up term by me) that controls when the knee happens on a DC charge. The colder the "pack" (not OAT), the lower the knee which means this post should have notated the SOC's involved with all these charging events.

I thought I did. My recollection is the pack was about 28-31% SOC when I started & was only up to 61-65% SOC after about 40-45 min on a 40kWh car


I will go back & log an entire charge session so everything will be better documented because I commenced troubleshooting after already being at the charger for like 30 min after I came back to the car after chatting with some dealership folks & discovered the car was nowhere near where it should have been relative to the time spent charging & the indicated charge rate.

HerdingElectrons said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/12/cold-verses-leaf.html

Click to expand...

First off; the temp gauge is still 12 segments so I would edit your description to "4 TB's"

What are TB's temperature brackets? I haven't noticed it moving in blocks so I plead ignorance on this level. The car was parked in a low-mid 50'sF garage so presumably that is where the pack started in temp & likely was in the 60's from driving the 22 miles & then sitting at Costco for about an hour & the 30 min later at a reduced QC rate the pack was in the 70'sF. None of those temps seem particularly cold/freezing in my experience but I'm happy to be reeducated

2nd off; There was a DC charge rate SW adjustment available and you MUST request it. Did you get that done?

I did NOT specifically request since my usage doesn't require/warrant it to be done & the idea was pure conjecture since that is the only known to me change if any to the car to impact/effect the charge rate albeit seemingly negatively

3rd off; There is such a thing as IceGate (made up term by me) that controls when the knee happens on a DC charge. The colder the "pack" (not OAT), the lower the knee which means this post should have notated the SOC's involved with all these charging events.

I thought I did. My recollection is the pack was about 28-31% SOC when I started & was only up to 61-65% SOC after about 40-45 min on a 40kWh car


I will go back & log an entire charge session so everything will be better documented because I commenced troubleshooting after already being at the charger for like 30 min after I came back to the car after chatting with some dealership folks & discovered the car was nowhere near where it should have been relative to the time spent charging & the indicated charge rate.

Click to expand...

Ok, so pack is probably normal. You will see a decline in the charge rate starting under 50% SOC (per LEAF Spy which is about 43% SOC per dash) when pack temps are cold in the upper 40's. That is what you will want to check. In Summer with pack temps in low 80's, that decline doesn't start until over 79% SOC so quite the difference.

TB = Temperature bars. Name isn't as accurate as it used to be but at least its a known term.