DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Assuming they aren't jacking up the price to cover financing, this will be a great deal for anyone entering EVton.
Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV
- Thread starter JeffN
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Assuming they aren't jacking up the price to cover financing, this will be a great deal for anyone entering EVton.
I think I'll wait for $99/$99 leases.
cwerdna
Well-known member
There are some "$99"/mo or less leases of Bolts that I've seen but they're usually with some big amount of $ down.LeftieBiker said:
I found some at http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/, for example.
Yep, that's why I specified the down payment as well. When I get my $99/$99 2018 Bolt, I'll park it by the river. Maybe I'll carry a fire extinguisher, like I did with my old Volvo 122.
LeftieBiker said:
lol
It is not a bad thought to buy one of these jailed cars on the cheap, and then park it somewhere safe and wait for GM to either fix it (increasingly doubtful) or offer compensation. The class action lawyers must be drooling.
Knowing GM, they are hoping to be able to convince the regulatory authorities that a SoC limit of e.g. 90% solves the safety issue. If that is accepted then GM negotiates with its customers for compensation for loss of 10% of battery capacity. That is likely to be expensive for GM since ~ 65% remaining capacity is considered EOL.
My guess then is either a $10k present, or a buyback.
Except that they apparently can't legally sell them. I'm guessing lease Fire Sale, soon. As soon as they come up with a bandaid, like limiting SOC to 80%.
webeleafowners
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
So, I'm seeing conflicting info on this. Is this "stop sale" thingy affecting all new Bolts? There have been 9 left over 2019's on lots around here for three months. Is this why? There is also about 250 or so 2020's that are not moving.
Thanks in advance.
According to Cwerdna, not all Bolts are affected by the issue. So some have to stay on the lots, while others can be sold. IIRC.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Correct. At last check as of a few days ago (and all throughout this), my '19 Bolt is not affected per My Chevrolet app and after entry of my VIN into NHTSA's site, I have 0 unrepaired/open recalls.LeftieBiker said:
I've never had any recall work done on my car. Heck, it's not gone back to any Chevy dealer for service once since I bought it almost 2 years ago. I missed my free 1st tire rotation (included w/all Bolts) as it expired by time. Apparently, I needed to get it done within 12 months. Ended up having the rotation done elsewhere.
Q12 of https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RMISC-20V701-9894.pdf also addresses this. It's one of the 15 associated docs at https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2019/CHEVROLET/BOLT%252520EV/5%252520HB/FWD#recalls for campaign 20V701000. Still waiting for this to grow beyond 15, hopefully w/more useful info.
That could make for an impressively long lived 48 kWh battery.LeftieBiker said:
My wife hates the idea, but I keep thinking that a fire-sale Bolt could be a nice car purchase once the fire risk is resolved ... if the fire risk is ever resolved.
EatsShootsandLeafs
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I didn't read this thread much (too longcwerdna said:
), but I do visit leasehackr forum with some regularity, and at least one person late last year leased a Bolt for negative money. After the various incentives, low-income incentive in CA, and a bunch of other stuff stacked his all in cost was literally in the negative over the lease term. Generally they get some very nice one-pay lease for $7k or something like that (the only payment you make) and then get various tax credits back to offset more than the cost.More common a ton of people over there have done deals equivalent to under $200/month for a bolt, all-in cost (taxes, downypayment, etc. covered).
That's good, but I'm talking about a literal $99 a month lease, with no or a tiny down payment. I won't be keeping the car, and just want a cheap second EV after I turn in my SL - which I will definitely miss. It just has to be able to go 40 miles and haul cargo.
coleafrado2
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SageBrush said:
notice: the text below has been proven incorrect by later releases by LG/GM.
I guess the information hasn't percolated over here from the Bolt forum yet, but users have figured out the instability issue boils down to the BMS being unable to balance some poorly-binned cells that float up to 4.25-4.30 volts or more during charge. At those levels, it's only a matter of time before the separators break down and catch fire. So the failure mechanism is well understood; the root cause is basically one of these things: the BMS algorithm over-optimizes cell voltages at low SOC, it under-optimizes them at high-SOC, both, or some cars just have extremely high variance in cells and the BMS doesn't have enough balance current to even it out. Perhaps, also, the BMS doesn't cut off charging when the highest cell groups exceed the overvoltage threshold.
Some users reported 80-200 mV of delta at nearly full charge - pretty bad. Note that this is different from a Leaf with 130-150 mV delta when at low SoC.
I'm told it's easy to check cell balance with the app, so as long as you know your battery isn't one of the tiny number with an inconsistent pack, you should be in the clear - particularly with the GM "temporary" fix charge threshold of 4.0-4.1 V. There's speculation that the limit is at 95%, not 90%, but nobody seems able to tell the difference.
It appears that everyone's waiting for GM to decide on a permanent fix. Could be a BMS firmware patch (might not be possible over CAN), hardware intervention e.g. pack swap (extremely costly), full fleet buyback (might be less costly in 5-10 years with depreciation), or the permanent 90% hobble (which is essentially free).
^^ I'd like to hear both GM and the safety authorities agree with the user forum, but the general lines of explanation seem reasonable.
Honestly, I would be pretty happy with a $13k Bolt hobbled at 80% SoC that was safe. It would be ~ 50 kWh usable that would last a LONG time.
Honestly, I would be pretty happy with a $13k Bolt hobbled at 80% SoC that was safe. It would be ~ 50 kWh usable that would last a LONG time.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Interesting, if true. News Coulomb alluded to large amount of delta in one of his recent YouTube videos. Over at https://www.chevybolt.org, there are too many threads on the recall including one that is well past 1000 replies which I do not have time to nor intend to wade in on at this point.coleafrado2 said:
A permanent 90% hobble isn't free either. You could bet that there will be many people pissed wanting a buyback or compensation (which GM could give out).
Kieran973
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
I’ve had the same thought myself: seems like a great time to buy a Bolt. I’ve even thought about swapping out my Leaf Plus for one and trying to net ~10K in the process. But if possible, I would just recommend renting a Bolt for 24 hours on Turo or one of those sites and making sure you’re OK with the seats. If one can get a ‘17 Bolt right now for $13K, then the same will be true in two years for a ‘19 Niro or Kona with much better seats and better or equal cargo space, and I doubt your ‘13 Leaf will depreciate that much more than it has already in the next two years....
I read some threads over at the Bolt forum. Apparently at least a handful of people have handed in their cars to GM. One person said he received a $28k check for his 2017. I didn't pay attention to trim, and there is some chatter that this is a CA thing.Kieran973 said:
So if you are feeling lucky you:
Dump your LEAF
Buy a Bolt for $13k
Dump the Bolt on GM for say a $10k profit
Buy a Tesla
cwerdna
Well-known member
I don't think this strategy would work at this point if one didn't already have an affected Bolt before the recall was announced and evidence of actually needing most/all of the range and so on. GM has records from Moronstar. I receive a monthly email from Moronstar (example title "Your January Diagnostics Report from your Chevrolet Bolt EV") which lists my VIN, odometer, how many miles I went that month, efficiency in miles/kWh and MPGe, tire pressures, etc. There's also a link (will try later on another computer that's actually logged into My Chevrolet account) to my driving and charging history.SageBrush said:
I've seen some probs w/the accuracy of the driving and/or charging data before though and it's not just me. I think there's also bug where I never receive an April email as it's happened twice but all the other months show up.
I've seen chatter on Bolt FB groups that in some cases, GM has been willing to provide a loaner ICEV and one guy in cold Canada who said he needs the range has been loaned a 2020 Bolt for now, which has more range due to 6 kWh larger battery.
coleafrado2
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SageBrush said:
That is, if you want a Tesla. If you gave me the choice between a low-end model 3 or a $14k Bolt plus $22k in cash, with both cars at ~30k miles, I'd take the latter and run. I'd put the odds of getting $10k in profit from GM at less than 1%.
I don't see how any of that is relevant. The car is damaged goods, and GM will have to compensate the owner. That said, GM has a legion of lawyers and they have perhaps THE richest history of any car company of screwing their customers in court. So I'd take it as a given that GM will unleash its legal beagles to try and screw its customers, but its position is weak.cwerdna said:
A comparison can sort of be made with VW -- the second scummiest car corp on Earth. The dieselgate buybacks were, so far as I know, based on who owned the title. When the title was acquired was never brought up.
