The 40KWH Battery Topic

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SageBrush said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
In either case, it is hardly inconvenient.
To you. Or to me. Both of us look at the SoC gauge every time we park at home.

However, the country is stuffed with people who only add fuel to their cars when the car beeps and flashes an "ADD GAS" alert. These people have no clue about the status of their fuel tank (or battery SoC, as the case may be) at any other time and they want to keep it that way. Moreover, realize that a sizable fraction of EV drivers are like this, AND are driving an EV in no small part either to save money or because of a pushy spouse. Accommodating EV idiosyncrasies is not part of their daily agenda.

As jmurtagh so cheerfully noted, he was lucky to convince his wife to plug in daily. The rest was on him and the car. In case you are wondering, no particular perceptiveness on my part. But my wife does have a similar outlook and fuse.

Your gasser analogy is spot on and yeah, many EVers aren't even aware they need to change. It is beyond me how they can equate 30 seconds of daily attention to their EV's status as being inconvenient compared to a weekly trip to a gas station?

This is the reason I took a financial hit to upgrade to the Plus. The 40 had "workable" range but the plus pack being so large meant being very specific with charging needs was simply not needed. I am ok with an SOC target between 45 and 60%. That isn't like hitting the broad side of a barn; its more like hitting air. :lol:

Just a quick comment on cars and partners; Before my LEAF days, we were a two Prius family and I tracked mileage, cost, etc. Well she was unable to reset the trip meters, save gas receipts, etc.... so I did all the refueling. We would simply switch cars for the day. THREE times she ran out of gas because it wasn't her job to put gas in the tank.

When I suggested it would be beneficial to let me know when the bar started to blink. Prius had 10 pips and just like the LEAF GOM, the last one would start to blink with roughly 60-80 miles left. With a 42 mile RT commute at the time, this should have been plenty of time for her since we were living together at the time...

She was not appreciative of my suggestion...
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Just a quick comment on cars and partners; Before my LEAF days, we were a two Prius family and I tracked mileage, cost, etc. Well she was unable to reset the trip meters, save gas receipts, etc.... so I did all the refueling. We would simply switch cars for the day. THREE times she ran out of gas because it wasn't her job to put gas in the tank.

When I suggested it would be beneficial to let me know when the bar started to blink. Prius had 10 pips and just like the LEAF GOM, the last one would start to blink with roughly 60-80 miles left. With a 42 mile RT commute at the time, this should have been plenty of time for her since we were living together at the time...

She was not appreciative of my suggestion...
Great story :lol:

My first impulse was to read your post to my wife, but my survival instincts have kicked in.
 
Same here. I am responsible to keep the car at what ever SoC I want so long as she never has to think about charging. I wouldn't dare suggest she mess with a timer daily, etc. If I ever go back to international travel, I will have to accept that she is going to just charge the car to 100% like we did with the old Leaf, though as we have so much range now (comparatively), that would be more of a weekly than a nightly event.

I saw a couple more facebookers cross 100k miles in their 40 Leafs, with full bars. While the relatively quick drop to low 90s SoH is disheartening for some, the overall chemistry does appear to be holding up.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Same here. I am responsible to keep the car at what ever SoC I want so long as she never has to think about charging. I wouldn't dare suggest she mess with a timer daily, etc. If I ever go back to international travel, I will have to accept that she is going to just charge the car to 100% like we did with the old Leaf, though as we have so much range now (comparatively), that would be more of a weekly than a nightly event.

I saw a couple more facebookers cross 100k miles in their 40 Leafs, with full bars. While the relatively quick drop to low 90s SoH is disheartening for some, the overall chemistry does appear to be holding up.

Definitely encouraging but the fact that anyone is crossing 100K miles in less than 3 years should tell us that won't be the norm for the rest of us. Time is a factor too and no amount of TMS will fix that.

That said; people with 50,000 miles (which is quite doable for many of us) also have great results after the initial 7-10% loss.
 
During development testing at Nissan’s Stanfield Az proving grounds, the 2nd generation batteries were driven 24/7 for hundreds of thousands of miles.
 
Yes, I did like that.


Assume, everyone has seen this. The 40kWh Leaf does very well, only lead by the mini Cooper. SR+ isn't bad either. If you included the crazy discounts the Leaf 40 would likely lead.


https://www.carboncounter.com/?fbclid=IwAR25MstTmHdLZunNaSmvbLdF41BJ0tUUAwkA_swauGx3LvLmmbtZ5sGRaJo#!/explore?cars=35790;35791;35478;36713;36718
 
SageBrush said:
Learjet said:
You get the point...works for me.
Heh.

There would be revolution in the air if my wife had to fiddle with the charge timer settings after every drive. Even I would tire of that requirement pretty darned quick.

too funny...no way my wife would do that also....good thing this in my car. :)
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
It is beyond me how they can equate 30 seconds of daily attention to their EV's status as being inconvenient compared to a weekly trip to a gas station?
If my wife is someone to go by, it is not a question of time, it is a question of habit -- or in this case, the lack thereof. She simply refuses (with an attitude ,mind you) to be forced to remember to think about the SoC gauge when she arrives home.

I mean ... REALLY ... who wears the pants in the family ? The wife, or the needy waxed tin can ?!?

Men have an easier time getting used to the change in behavior because we are naturally subservient.
 
Pretty cool single module change on a 40 Leaf used as a cab with 120k miles. 87 SoH, though some buckling in the back. 4 Daily DC charges will do that over 3 years.

https://youtu.be/-ySOspbt0BM
 
evtifosi said:
First time in a while that we have charged to 100%, so I did a check on the battery and we gained a tiny bit in the AHr reading since the summer.

Summer we were at around 104.3 AHr, now I am at 106.31 AHr

That is a pretty healthy chunk
 
We don't drive it too much right now (pandemic and all), and it lives in a even cooler place than it did originally. The first two years the car was in Hayward right by the bay, so pretty mild. Now though being in Santa Cruz it is a bit milder and easier on the battery...
 
evtifosi said:
We don't drive it too much right now (pandemic and all), and it lives in a even cooler place than it did originally. The first two years the car was in Hayward right by the bay, so pretty mild. Now though being in Santa Cruz it is a bit milder and easier on the battery...

Yeah the temperature makes a difference theory is being blown up right now. Guessing it simply has to be a lot hotter than previous packs to make a difference. I am in winter and my Jan 2021 adjustment was more than double my Oct 2020 adjustment (downward) but my 40 kwh did the exact same thing. In its 2nd year, it went up .78% July 2019 and no change Oct 2019 and yeah, we had a bit of an early onset Summer.

Another way to look at it is during Winter when I do more level 2 charging at home, driving less I am getting the bigger drops but summer when DCing more and driving a lot more, I got no drop and even an increase?

This all rather unusual to say the least.
 
Maybe it is happier living in our house. I did a complete paint correction, ceramic coating and thorough engine and interior cleaning when we bought it... :lol:

I am just happy to have the better range (moving from a 2015).
 
I have continued my experiment in regards to HX. I have never let my battery SOC outside the 30% to 70% range the last month and my HX continues to slowly drop. It isn't dropping as fast as it did in the summer and fall, so the rate of change could be still related to temperature. Or it could be that my HX is low enough that it doesn't have the ability to quickly move down right now.

If anyone is willing, what would be nice is some other data. Ideally it would be a couple folks who have a higher HX, then go four weeks always keeping your SOC above 30% and below 70%. Even better, when the car is sitting, try to leave it close to 50%. I know most folks probably can't do this due to work and commute, but maybe someone can. I need to take my car into my dealer pretty soon so that means a 100% charge. I fully expect that to spike my HX up.

Some of my recent readings:
(Date / SOH / AMPHr / HX)

12/18/2020 90.04 103.94 103.55
12/28/2020 90.04 103.94 103.52
1/12/2021 90.02 103.92 103.52
1/15/2021 90.02 103.92 103.41
1/22/2021 90.02 103.92 103.37
1/24/2021 90.02 103.92 103.33
1/28/2021 90.02 103.92 103.3
 
danrjones said:
I have continued my experiment in regards to HX. I have never let my battery SOC outside the 30% to 70% range the last month and my HX continues to slowly drop. It isn't dropping as fast as it did in the summer and fall, so the rate of change could be still related to temperature. Or it could be that my HX is low enough that it doesn't have the ability to quickly move down right now.

If anyone is willing, what would be nice is some other data. Ideally it would be a couple folks who have a higher HX, then go four weeks always keeping your SOC above 30% and below 70%. Even better, when the car is sitting, try to leave it close to 50%. I know most folks probably can't do this due to work and commute, but maybe someone can. I need to take my car into my dealer pretty soon so that means a 100% charge. I fully expect that to spike my HX up.

Some of my recent readings:
(Date / SOH / AMPHr / HX)

12/18/2020 90.04 103.94 103.55
12/28/2020 90.04 103.94 103.52
1/12/2021 90.02 103.92 103.52
1/15/2021 90.02 103.92 103.41
1/22/2021 90.02 103.92 103.37
1/24/2021 90.02 103.92 103.33
1/28/2021 90.02 103.92 103.3

When I first got mine, I was 100% DC charging and Hx skyrocketed. NCTC expires, so now I am 100% AC with SOC range from 20 to 45% and Hx dropped steadily but only to 111 and has been in a holding pattern for almost 2 weeks. (I was over 120)

With all that, I am not sure Hx really deserves all that much scrutiny. I will say if you prefer a higher Hx, do a half dozen DC sessions. That seems to bump it up for nearly every one.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
When I first got mine, I was 100% DC charging and Hx skyrocketed. NCTC expires, so now I am 100% AC with SOC range from 20 to 45% and Hx dropped steadily but only to 111 and has been in a holding pattern for almost 2 weeks. (I was over 120)

With all that, I am not sure Hx really deserves all that much scrutiny. I will say if you prefer a higher Hx, do a half dozen DC sessions. That seems to bump it up for nearly every one.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I've done multiple short DC sessions at the station near me. But I always stop before hitting 70% SOC. Did not seem to impact my HX. Sample size of one (just me) and its during winter (and short session) so my pack doesn't get hot, so hard to draw conclusions.
 
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
When I first got mine, I was 100% DC charging and Hx skyrocketed. NCTC expires, so now I am 100% AC with SOC range from 20 to 45% and Hx dropped steadily but only to 111 and has been in a holding pattern for almost 2 weeks. (I was over 120)

With all that, I am not sure Hx really deserves all that much scrutiny. I will say if you prefer a higher Hx, do a half dozen DC sessions. That seems to bump it up for nearly every one.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I've done multiple short DC sessions at the station near me. But I always stop before hitting 70% SOC. Did not seem to impact my HX. Sample size of one (just me) and its during winter (and short session) so my pack doesn't get hot, so hard to draw conclusions.

I haven't charged to above 70% either. In most cases, I was only charging to 45-55% (the knee on 200 amp stations)

I guess my real question is what is the desirable Hx? Because I see ones with high Hx still getting relatively large chunks on adjustment day while others with Hx in high 90's or low 100's getting no adjustment, very small adjustments or positive adjustments.

Now there is always exceptions so all my comments should be taken as "majority" observations.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
danrjones said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
When I first got mine, I was 100% DC charging and Hx skyrocketed. NCTC expires, so now I am 100% AC with SOC range from 20 to 45% and Hx dropped steadily but only to 111 and has been in a holding pattern for almost 2 weeks. (I was over 120)

With all that, I am not sure Hx really deserves all that much scrutiny. I will say if you prefer a higher Hx, do a half dozen DC sessions. That seems to bump it up for nearly every one.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, I've done multiple short DC sessions at the station near me. But I always stop before hitting 70% SOC. Did not seem to impact my HX. Sample size of one (just me) and its during winter (and short session) so my pack doesn't get hot, so hard to draw conclusions.

I haven't charged to above 70% either. In most cases, I was only charging to 45-55% (the knee on 200 amp stations)

I guess my real question is what is the desirable Hx? Because I see ones with high Hx still getting relatively large chunks on adjustment day while others with Hx in high 90's or low 100's getting no adjustment, very small adjustments or positive adjustments.

Now there is always exceptions so all my comments should be taken as "majority" observations.

I have no idea what HX is desirable (good question) or if it is good to be low or high, or makes no difference. I was just doing an experiment because I could.

My HX is lower than yours and yet my SOH is not better, and for my mileage (about 8700 miles total), one could say my SOH is worse.
Right now my best guess is that SOH is primarily related to age, secondarily related to climate and cycles. But the BMS could also be hiding the real answer.
 
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