GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:08 pm

I meant to set charge timer 1 to charge for a few hours, set charge timer 2 to charge for a few more hours, and set climate control timer to charge and warm car starting about 2 hours before departure. Example (using 24 hour time): Charge timer 1 ON at 1700 and OFF at 2200; charge timer 2 ON at 2300 and OFF at 0400; climate control timer ON at 0600 (will automatically stop after 2 hours) for departure at about 0800.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:51 pm

Ah, got it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:58 am

We've been having extreme cold temps the last couple of weeks and I notice both my '12SL and '13S which are both parked outside in the below zero F temps, pulsing the first charging light(like the battery was low and being charged but SOC is over 60%). The pulsing happens on either the plugged in Leaf or the one not and seems to be happening very regularly. I haven't had time to really track how much if any the unplugged in Leaf loses SOC% but it does seem noticeable. I could have sworn my '12 had a SOC around 80 percent last night and when I checked it this morning the heater light was pulsing and when I plugged it in it read 60% which would mean a loss of 20% overnight(-10F last night) but I'm not positive it was at 80%. The '12 is mostly sitting while the '13 gets daily use. What I've been doing is plugging the '13 in as soon as someone gets home and the SOC is less than 50% which is almost always and as soon as it finishes charging moving the 16a L2 EVSE over to the '12 where I leave it until it's stopped charging. It's hard to believe the '12's heater draws that much but a few days later and when I plug the '12 in, it's generally less than 80% SOC, just sitting!
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

LeftieBiker
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Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:46 am

IIRC, the battery heater can use about 20% charge per day if running constantly. 20% in 8 hours does seem a bit high, as the warmer only draws 300 watts. That would be 50-60% SOC used in one 24 hour period!
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:27 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:46 am
IIRC, the battery heater can use about 20% charge per day if running constantly. 20% in 8 hours does seem a bit high, as the warmer only draws 300 watts. That would be 50-60% SOC used in one 24 hour period!
OK I did an accurate test. At 4pm yesterday I checked the SOC on my '12SL and it was 84%. It just sat in one place outside in negative single digits and when I approached the car at 7am this morning(15h later) the blue battery warmer was on and when I checked SOC it had dropped to 65% :( a 19% drop in 15h just sitting, again only in single-digit temps. It's supposed to get even colder tonight, approaching -20F and today's high is only supposed to be in the low(or would it be high, single digits below, approaching 0F). Sunday's high is supposed to be -4F while Sunday night/Monday morning we'll be greeted by -15F.
It won't be driven this weekend at all and I think I'm going to leave it unplugged until Sunday morning, take a SOC reading and see how low it dropped. Then I'll plug it in and charge it up to full(somewhere close to 90% I hope at a time of 10am I'd think) and take the final SOC reading and leave it plugged it. I'm then going to check the SOC Monday morning. What I'm trying to verify is if the EVSE/car will keep waking up to charge the traction battery even after it's fully charged. I don't know for sure but do you think it will? I'm wondering if once the battery is full and stops the charging it might require a cycle of the J1772 connector to start the charging again. If this is the case that would be BAD as what would happen if someone were to be gone for weeks in sub-zero temp, the battery could go almost flat even if plugged in, or at least as low as it would get before the battery heater stops working, somewhere around 20%??
More testing to come....
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

LeftieBiker
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Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:15 pm

When I used to keep my 2013 plugged in with charging done - before I knew about the accessory battery issue - the car would restart charging once a day at 6:00 pm, for a few minutes. This was because I was using the 'charge to 80% with car's limit set to 100%' trick that you could do with the 2013. For that reason I'm fairly sure that Leafs will restart charging with no cycling of the charge cable plug needed.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:03 am

jjeff wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:27 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:46 am
IIRC, the battery heater can use about 20% charge per day if running constantly. 20% in 8 hours does seem a bit high, as the warmer only draws 300 watts. That would be 50-60% SOC used in one 24 hour period!
OK I did an accurate test. At 4pm yesterday I checked the SOC on my '12SL and it was 84%. It just sat in one place outside in negative single digits and when I approached the car at 7am this morning(15h later) the blue battery warmer was on and when I checked SOC it had dropped to 65% :( a 19% drop in 15h just sitting, again only in single-digit temps. It's supposed to get even colder tonight, approaching -20F and today's high is only supposed to be in the low(or would it be high, single digits below, approaching 0F). Sunday's high is supposed to be -4F while Sunday night/Monday morning we'll be greeted by -15F.
It won't be driven this weekend at all and I think I'm going to leave it unplugged until Sunday morning, take a SOC reading and see how low it dropped. Then I'll plug it in and charge it up to full(somewhere close to 90% I hope at a time of 10am I'd think) and take the final SOC reading and leave it plugged it. I'm then going to check the SOC Monday morning. What I'm trying to verify is if the EVSE/car will keep waking up to charge the traction battery even after it's fully charged. I don't know for sure but do you think it will? I'm wondering if once the battery is full and stops the charging it might require a cycle of the J1772 connector to start the charging again. If this is the case that would be BAD as what would happen if someone were to be gone for weeks in sub-zero temp, the battery could go almost flat even if plugged in, or at least as low as it would get before the battery heater stops working, somewhere around 20%??
More testing to come....
Well, last I left my 12SL at 7am yesterday it was at 65% SOC, the battery warmer was on basically all day yesterday and for sure all last night, this morning at 8am(25hrs later) SOC was 57% for an 8% drop, less than half the drop of the 15hr period before that when I'd assume it was even a bit warmer outside....... :?
I plugged it in at 8am and will note the SOC% when it stops charging, I'll leave it plugged in and then recheck the SOC% tomorrow morning to make sure the SOC% is the same and hasn't dropped due to the battery heater which I'm guessing will be on all day today and tonight(-18F tomorrow morning forecast and high -4F today).

On another note, I plugged in my '13S yesterday evening and it charged to 100% and stopped charging, I left the EVSE hooked up and like my '12SL I'm guessing the battery heater ran all night long. When I checked it's SOC at 8am this morning it was still 100% which tells me the car must have started charging again last night as otherwise it would have dropped SOC, that's a good thing.

On another note, I'm wondering what would be the best strategy for long term outside storage of an EV in an extremely cold(for an extended period of time) climate, lots of places worse than MN. If you leave it plugged in it seems like the vehicle will be near constantly drawing 300w for the battery, in sub-zero temps I've noted the battery warmer really never goes off. 300w 24x7 is nothing to sneeze at, seems like a real waste of electricity to me. I wonder if it might not just be better to not plug it in, in which case the battery would get down to 20% SOC and then stop the 300w heater, it would stay at this roughly 20% until you plugged it back in. This would eliminate the 300w 24x7 constant draw but I wonder at what harm to the battery? I've read it's not good to let the battery get too cold and it's also probably not the best to leave it at a relatively low 20% SOC? Now I know it might be different but I've always stored my single-use batteries, mostly alkaline but also lithium button batteries in the freezer for long term storage, I've read in the past it helps extend their shelf life. Other than the fact that these batteries will be stored at near 100% SOC what's different about these batteries compared to our Leaf batteries, is it that the Leaf batteries is rechargeable vs single-use alkaline and Li button batteries?
I don't have to worry about any of this with my ICE vehicles, they can sit outside in all kinds of weather and once it warms up, they just fire up. Note I do generally put a small 10w? battery tender on their 12v battery but that's peanuts to a 300w Leaf battery heater.
Personally, I really think a Leaf should be garaged in sub-zero temps, just makes things easier all around. It's not like you have to really heat the garage, just keep it from getting sub-zero, if indeed leaving it at sub-zero temps for an extended period of time is harmful to the battery.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

SageBrush
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Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:06 am

jjeff wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:03 am
OK I did an accurate test.
SoC is temperature dependent (and reversible)
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

goldbrick
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Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:23 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:06 am
SoC is temperature dependent (and reversible)
I agree. There is no other way to explain the SOC used by my morning commute vs the afternoon commute except that in the morning the battery is cold (lower SOC) and then warms up (higher SOC). I don't arrive with a higher SOC than when I left but the effect is very noticeable. At least when the car is in the 4-5 temp bar range. These days, the to and fro commutes are nearly equal in the amount of SOC used.

jjeff
Posts: 2314
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Do 2016 SV models sold in the US have battery heaters?

Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:37 am

jjeff wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:03 am

I plugged it in at 8am and will note the SOC% when it stops charging, I'll leave it plugged in and then recheck the SOC% tomorrow morning to make sure the SOC% is the same and hasn't dropped due to the battery heater which I'm guessing will be on all day today and tonight(-18F tomorrow morning forecast and high -4F today).

On another note, I plugged in my '13S yesterday evening and it charged to 100% and stopped charging, I left the EVSE hooked up and like my '12SL I'm guessing the battery heater ran all night long. When I checked it's SOC at 8am this morning it was still 100% which tells me the car must have started charging again last night as otherwise it would have dropped SOC, that's a good thing.
Well I think I've discovered something and like basically everything else about my '12 It's a negative :(
First, while I plugged it in yesterday morning at 8am it wasn't until about 2pm it stopped charging and went to sleep, 6hrs to go from 65% SOC to 85% which is where it finally stopped, 20% in the summer would have taken a little more than an hour at the 240v @ 16a I fed it. Note I didn't note the charging speed but I'd guess is was very low to have taken so long. Regardless at 2pm Sunday SOC was 85% and most of the time I looked after that the 300w battery heater was on(single driver's side blue light flashing on the dash). Note I have a LeafDD display always hooked to the OBDII port and every time the heater ran and light flashed, my LeafDD powered up and I could see the SOC without powering on the car. My EVSE charge light also flashed like it was actually charging but it's my belief it was not charging at all, wish that EVSE had a display but just the lights. Anyway one reason I believe it did NOT actually charge as this morning at 6am, 16h after I plugged it in, my SOC was 75% :x this tells me my fear was correct, once the '12 stops charging it does NOT wake up to charge again, even if the battery warmer draws down the battery! You'd need to cycle the j1772 or possibly push the timer override button to get it to charge. Note I don't have a timer set so maybe that wouldn't work but thinking it through maybe a timer would solve this issue at at the specified time it might start charging if the battery were not full? Note this is NOT how my '13 works, it works better IMO in that if you leave the EVSE plugged in the car will automatically wake up if the heater draws down the traction batter, another + for post '12 Leafs.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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