The 62kWh Battery Topic

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Here are my full discharge/charge tests so far on my 2019 SL Plus:
LEAF 2019 Battery Information 3.jpg
The last 3-month update happened between January 12th and January 16th. On 1/12 AHr=165.90, SOH=94.05%, and Hx=100.18%; on 1/16 AHr=165.41, SOH=93.77%, and Hx=100.05%. Hx has bounced up and down since then while AHr and SOH have continued their very slow downward trend. I cannot determine causes for variation in Hx values, but ambient temperatures have varied (we had snow falling, but not sticking to the ground in north Phoenix a week or two ago and it is about 70 F with sunshine today) and my highway vs. suburban driving has also varied.
 
GerryAZ said:
Here are my full discharge/charge tests so far on my 2019 SL Plus:
LEAF 2019 Battery Information 3.jpg
The last 3-month update happened between January 12th and January 16th. On 1/12 AHr=165.90, SOH=94.05%, and Hx=100.18%; on 1/16 AHr=165.41, SOH=93.77%, and Hx=100.05%. Hx has bounced up and down since then while AHr and SOH have continued their very slow downward trend. I cannot determine causes for variation in Hx values, but ambient temperatures have varied (we had snow falling, but not sticking to the ground in north Phoenix a week or two ago and it is about 70 F with sunshine today) and my highway vs. suburban driving has also varied.

Yeah, Hx is a mystery to me as well. It rises a lot when I DC so I went to AC only charging and it slowly dropped. I was running SOC bet 20-45%. Then had adjustment larger than normal or simply glitch of sorts? (Oct. .21% drop, Jan 1.54% drop) so decided to move the SOC range up so now I am running between 35 and 65% and my Hx is bouncing back up again?

You didn't by chance track your SOC on your tests? Your GID count is off it seems? My dealer is 80 miles away and he knows how much of an SOC stickler I am so he always times my pickups to be fully charged just before I am expected to depart. Twice the car was still charging when I arrrived but my pickup charge was 772 GIDs.
 
The table is for full discharge/full charge tests (starting September 7, 2019). I drive the car until the battery is nearly depleted and then run climate control in the driveway until it shuts down so that the measured charging energy from the wall gives me a reading of battery capacity as independent of the Nissan controllers as possible. The first 3 lines in the table give some initial readings. The highest "GID" reading I ever recorded was 737 so your 772 is significantly higher. I notice that GID reading at 100% SOC is sometimes a little higher if the car was not deeply discharged before charging so the 737 number (have two charges with that maximum) did not happen after a full discharge. I had 737 GIDS after charging on 9/21/2019 at 2153 miles and 10/27/2019 at 4630 miles. As you can see, the GID reading was 730 after the first full charge on 8/11/2019 at 189 miles and 721 after the first full discharge/charge test on 9/7/2019 at 1149 miles.
 
GerryAZ said:
The table is for full discharge/full charge tests (starting September 7, 2019). I drive the car until the battery is nearly depleted and then run climate control in the driveway until it shuts down so that the measured charging energy from the wall gives me a reading of battery capacity as independent of the Nissan controllers as possible. The first 3 lines in the table give some initial readings. The highest "GID" reading I ever recorded was 737 so your 772 is significantly higher. I notice that GID reading at 100% SOC is sometimes a little higher if the car was not deeply discharged before charging so the 737 number (have two charges with that maximum) did not happen after a full discharge. I had 737 GIDS after charging on 9/21/2019 at 2153 miles and 10/27/2019 at 4630 miles. As you can see, the GID reading was 730 after the first full charge on 8/11/2019 at 189 miles and 721 after the first full discharge/charge test on 9/7/2019 at 1149 miles.

Interesting. Your GID set to 77.5 wh?
 
I have the setting at 80 Wh/GID in Leaf Spy to keep data consistent with "GID Meter" data recorded for the 2011 before Leaf Spy became available (so I can compare data for all three cars). Since Leaf Spy reads the "GID" number from the CAN Bus and then uses the multiplier to calculate Wh, that setting should not change the number of GIDs (but will change kWh displayed in Leaf Spy). I measure charging energy with a revenue accuracy meter on the input side of the EVSE so that data does not depend upon Leaf Spy calculations or CAN Bus information from the car's control modules.
 
GerryAZ said:
Here are my full discharge/charge tests so far on my 2019 SL Plus:
Interesting, thanks.

I find it reassuring and useful that the trends of SOH, AHr and charging kWh match up pretty well.

It also looks like you have a pretty efficient EVSE
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
GerryAZ said:
Here are my full discharge/charge tests so far on my 2019 SL Plus:
LEAF 2019 Battery Information 3.jpg
The last 3-month update happened between January 12th and January 16th. On 1/12 AHr=165.90, SOH=94.05%, and Hx=100.18%; on 1/16 AHr=165.41, SOH=93.77%, and Hx=100.05%. Hx has bounced up and down since then while AHr and SOH have continued their very slow downward trend. I cannot determine causes for variation in Hx values, but ambient temperatures have varied (we had snow falling, but not sticking to the ground in north Phoenix a week or two ago and it is about 70 F with sunshine today) and my highway vs. suburban driving has also varied.

Yeah, Hx is a mystery to me as well. It rises a lot when I DC so I went to AC only charging and it slowly dropped. I was running SOC bet 20-45%. Then had adjustment larger than normal or simply glitch of sorts? (Oct. .21% drop, Jan 1.54% drop) so decided to move the SOC range up so now I am running between 35 and 65% and my Hx is bouncing back up again?

You didn't by chance track your SOC on your tests? Your GID count is off it seems? My dealer is 80 miles away and he knows how much of an SOC stickler I am so he always times my pickups to be fully charged just before I am expected to depart. Twice the car was still charging when I arrrived but my pickup charge was 772 GIDs.

I've been running an experiment keeping my SOC always between 30 and 70%. Hx has dropped significantly. I'm going to have to end the experiment this Thursday night as I have to charge to 100% to get to my dealer for service Fri AM. I even have done DC fast charging but again within that SOC range. But that data above seems to contradict mine.

So my thinking was that HX in some way relates to time at high or low states of charge.
 
So... there are no dealer in my area with a Leaf tech so they are unable to perform the annual battery check...I think I'm going to document this and not worry about it....I have copies of all the leafspy battery information. Wonder if this would cause a problem with a future warranty claim?
 
If Nissan is at fault, then no. They are rarely super-strict about the battery check anyway, simply insisting that the battery has to both have the update (if 30kwh) and the battery check before replacing it. That shouldn't require a separate visit, but it might.
 
Learjet said:
So... there are no dealer in my area with a Leaf tech so they are unable to perform the annual battery check...I think I'm going to document this and not worry about it....I have copies of all the leafspy battery information. Wonder if this would cause a problem with a future warranty claim?

So Nissan says you have to have this annual owner evaluation but to keep people from flipping out, they call it a battery check. They also imply that failure to get this battery check can invalidate the warranty and they have a laundry list of things that "could" invalidate the warranty as well.

Is that about right? Well, Nissan wants the owner evaluation so they have a paper trail of evidence in the event they want to invalidate your warranty...

As far as LEAF Spy, it can tell you the condition of your battery (which the report will not and spending an hour at the dealership to be told something you can see on your dash every day is not telling me anything about the battery) but you can run it or not. So they can't tell how long your pack sat at 100%, how many times you recharged the pack when it was already over 90%. It won't tell them how many red light races you won, etc. and that is what they care about.

The report is nothing more than a gentle reminder of things you should or shouldn't be doing and you are graded on those things just in case you think you are doing fine when you are not.

TBH; your degradation is looking like it won't go low enough for you to qualify and what a shocker that is, right? Nissan figured out to stop having to pay for warranty replacements. Just make a pack big enough they can't lose 4 bars in 100,000 miles. Personally, I think plus packs should have degradation coverage to 150,000 miles.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
TBH; your degradation is looking like it won't go low enough for you to qualify and what a shocker that is, right? Nissan figured out to stop having to pay for warranty replacements. Just make a pack big enough they can't lose 4 bars in 100,000 miles. Personally, I think plus packs should have degradation coverage to 150,000 miles.
That might be true with the "just make it bigger" part, but at the same time, it is kind of the reverse of what one does with ICE vehicles where you try NOT to drive as much to save on engine wear and expensive maintenance. It appears to be the opposite with the Leaf, drive the thing into the ground before time runs out, at least that is what I am doing to mine now. At the rate I'm going, I'll hit 150K miles in 3 years (averaging 4k miles a month) :mrgreen:
 
knightmb said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
TBH; your degradation is looking like it won't go low enough for you to qualify and what a shocker that is, right? Nissan figured out to stop having to pay for warranty replacements. Just make a pack big enough they can't lose 4 bars in 100,000 miles. Personally, I think plus packs should have degradation coverage to 150,000 miles.
That might be true with the "just make it bigger" part, but at the same time, it is kind of the reverse of what one does with ICE vehicles where you try NOT to drive as much to save on engine wear and expensive maintenance. It appears to be the opposite with the Leaf, drive the thing into the ground before time runs out, at least that is what I am doing to mine now. At the rate I'm going, I'll hit 150K miles in 3 years (averaging 4k miles a month) :mrgreen:

Well time is a degradation factor with gassers just as much as EVs. I will say if you want to get your money's worth, the faster you pile on the miles, the better. LEAF packs seem to thrive on exercise. We have a guy in WA who lost his FIRST bar on a 24 kwh pack (yep, 24 kwh) at over 152,000 miles!

I am not gonna lie. If my 2½ times larger pack makes it that far with 12 bars, I will be more than happy
 
^^^
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1077227_nissan-leaf-does-a-battery-inspection-give-peace-of-mind is what it looks like on gen 1. The printout is useless to the customer as it's about habits, not battery condition, other than the bars which are the same as displayed on the dash.

It is unknown what is currently sent to Nissan. https://web.archive.org/web/20120510085310/https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8260 was supposedly sent in 2012. Unknown how much this has evolved and how much of this info is unique to this dealer initiated work vs. being sent via Carwings/NissanConnect for cars w/TCUs.

Mine were always printed on a laser printer.
 
Learjet said:
anyone have a copy or sample of what this "annual battery check" report looks like?

Remember those dot matrix printers from last century, it looks like the report was printed with one of those. :lol:
 
The report I received last year for my 2019 SL Plus was essentially like the reports I received for the previous cars (capacity bars and driver stars). I could care less about how many stars I get (or don't get) for each item and I can look at the dash display for capacity, but at least I have the document that shows I am following the battery warranty requirements. I suspect Nissan gets even more data from the larger battery pack, but have no way to know.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Interestingly, my dealer tried hard to talk me out of continuing the battery checks...I did it anyway, but makes me think they are of 0 value to us or Nissan.

Well...maybe. What is certain is they are zero value to the "dealer"...

I got one only because I wanted to see what they were about. That was enough to cover my future decisions
 
Question for the Board

I have 1 cell with a 30 mili volt delta from the other cells (per Lesf Spy). I tried charging to 100% overnight, but that didn't help the delta. Would taking the battery down to a very low SoH then full charge help balance the rogue cell?
 
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