That looks to me like a plug placed in a dipstick hole.
How To: Reduction Gear Oil Change
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bobkart
Well-known member
Seems reasonable. I guess when I open it up I can lower a long thin piece of paper towel (say) into the hole to see if I pick up any ATF.
If yes, this would seem to be a more practical fill point than the one that opens to the side. But of course still need that one open to know when to stop filling. EDIT: Or maybe just use a real dipstick, from some other vehicle (that has one).
If yes, this would seem to be a more practical fill point than the one that opens to the side. But of course still need that one open to know when to stop filling. EDIT: Or maybe just use a real dipstick, from some other vehicle (that has one).
alozzy
Well-known member
This video might help you learn more about that "plug" and whether it would be suitable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5WhB7uQLzY
You can see it in the first few seconds of the video, I didn't bother to watch the rest of it though so I'm not sure what it's for...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5WhB7uQLzY
You can see it in the first few seconds of the video, I didn't bother to watch the rest of it though so I'm not sure what it's for...
bobkart
Well-known member
Thanks Alozzy, that helps.
The plug in question does access the same space as the other two plugs, and is different in that this topmost plug apparently has no magnetic part to it. I'm leaning towards doing the ATF refill through this topmost opening.
The real mystery then, is why the service manual doesn't utilize this clearly-more-accessible opening for refilling. Maybe they're worried about contaminants falling into the hole?
The plug in question does access the same space as the other two plugs, and is different in that this topmost plug apparently has no magnetic part to it. I'm leaning towards doing the ATF refill through this topmost opening.
The real mystery then, is why the service manual doesn't utilize this clearly-more-accessible opening for refilling. Maybe they're worried about contaminants falling into the hole?
Learjet
Well-known member
bobkart said:
or over filling. you still need the middle plug out for the level.
The factory may use this top hole with a dry gear box and then add the exact quantity called for during assembly.
I think that we have a winner, folks!
Nubo
Well-known member
bobkart said:
I'd opt for the normal routine in order to clean the magnetic fill plug.
bobkart
Well-known member
Learjet said:
Yes, I'll definitely have the middle plug out, so I know when to stop filling.
I think your point is, all other things being equal, since you have to remove the middle plug anyway, why not also fill there? Which I agree with, but other things are not equal, namely that adding fluid to that top opening needs much less in the way of funnels and/or hoses (or front left wheel removal!). I may even be able to pour straight from the bottle, although I'll probably still use a small funnel.
bobkart
Well-known member
Sure . . . that middle plug still needs to come out with the new approach (so I can know when to stop filling). I'll get to clean it then.Nubo said:
That might be why the service manual fills there, as it comes to one less plug removal/replacement.
Learjet
Well-known member
bobkart said:
I would think the manual is written so that if it's on a lift you can do everything from the bottom and not have to lower the car to put fluid in...then raise again to put the middle plug back in. I could see problems with that at a dealer... being awkward, time consuming and hard to catch spilled fluid.
I did a step-by-step video on this subject a few days ago when I did this on my ZE0
https://youtu.be/xQda4531plQ
https://youtu.be/xQda4531plQ
Learjet
Well-known member
what about the dissimilar metal corrosion...using the copper washer on aluminum?
Learjet said:
Yes! Aluminium and copper in contact will experience slight galvanic corrosion. How much depends on how often it gets wet/whether it is in salt water etc. Since the Leaf motor compartment is covered with protective plastic, you should be fine. But Alu is the correct replacement indeed!
When the other 60k miles rolls in, I'll be inspecting and chugging on some alu washers if needed.
Dala said:
Hi, I also changed the oil , I wasn’t happy when I saw the magnets , 2013 USA leaf with 65Tkm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFV4Kcrs8Xc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK9zFqjW3P4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVsAxV6MVQc
oil change:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FoZJnP7oDk
RajGiandeep
Member
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- Nov 4, 2020
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Did this tonight, used the Redline D6 ATF. Noticed a difference on the way home. Seemed to take less power to stay at cruising speed. Happy I did it. Thank you for the videos & photos. Gave me the confidence to jump in there as do it. Very simple process. I'll do it again in another 30-40K miles. Seems like this is the first time it's been done at 51K.
bobkart
Well-known member
I change mine last week, at a little past 25K miles, using the Redline D6 ATF. I also sensed less power needed for the same speed, but it's difficult to be sure, as rain and air temperatures probably have a larger effect on efficiency, and both of those changed for the worse here around the same time.RajGiandeep said:
I had less metal filings on my lower plug than I see in most of the pictures in this thread, but my fluid was more brown than red. Hopefully the synthetic fluid holds up better.
To follow-up on the earlier discussion about the third opening, I was able to fill using that opening and avoid removing the wheel, making the operation easier, as I was on ramps to access the bottom tray for removal (car was still level though), and would have needed a jackstand if that wheel would have had to come off.
(I suspect the middle opening could still be used to fill without removing the wheel, you'd just need a longer funnel with a flexible spout.)
Yep, that's the one I just put in. Had to buy 2 quarts, and it comes in those tooth paste type tubes, flexible, squeezable with a narrow spout to squirt in the fill plug. I didn't have to use a hose and funnel it in. Just crawled underneath, safely supported (jack stands or ramps, levelled), and the Amsoil unique bottle contorted right in. It's mostly PAO GroupIV and known to last a very long time.Kev994 said:
You can choose about any ATF, preferably one that says "synthetic" somewhere on it, and in the "Dexron VI"-class. Dexron HP works too. Nissan Matic S of course is great. Redline D6 or the Amsoil Fuel Efficient ATF are likely the best, longest lasting, but Dexron HP is very close. Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic ATF is very good as well. Mercon LV acceptable.
Watch the youtube video posted earlier. Support your car safely (jack stands and/or ramps, levelled).
I torqued the drain and fill magnetic plugs to 25 ft lbs.
Get cheap aluminum or copper crush washers to replace the old ones.
My Leaf is very new, only 1,740 miles, & I was curious about how much iron particles might be on the magnetic plugs. Plus I wanted to get the GroupIV based ATF in there to get a "sealed-for-life" status that Nissan says we already had with the OE Matic S from mile 1. ....
In the picture below, notice the iron dendrites, whose tips continuously get shed in the oil flow to crunch into the gear teeth to some extent.
Also, earlier in this thread, somebody else's Blackstone report showed a lot of iron suspended in the ATF fluid (120 ppm is high) at around 60k miles.
Gear teeth surface wear-in (break in) mostly happens in the first thousand miles out of the factory. After that there should be a lot less iron worn off.
Picture is of a '20 Leaf with only 1,740 miles! Enough metal there to make the Brooklyn Bridge. (OK, a very tiny scale one.)
I drained & filled all from under the car after removing the plastic under-shield. Easy to reach plugs.
Amsoil is slightly thicker when hot, but probably doesn't thicken up as much as a lot of ATF choices, like Matic S, in winter conditions.HRTKD said:
OE Matic S kv100 = 5.4 cSt
"Amsoil Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATL)" kv100 = 6.3
It's not enough diff to matter much, and that's viscosity at 100C (212F), & our gearbox probably won't get above around 180F on a hot day, hiway travel, so the viscosity difference is even smaller than a mere 0.9 cSt anyway.
voltamps said:Yep, that's the one I just put in. Had to buy 2 quarts, and it comes in those tooth paste type tubes, flexible, squeezable with a narrow spout to squirt in the fill plug. I didn't have to use a hose and funnel it in. Just crawled underneath, safely supported (jack stands or ramps, levelled), and the Amsoil unique bottle contorted right in. It's mostly PAO GroupIV and known to last a very long time.Kev994 said:
You can choose about any ATF, preferably one that says "synthetic" somewhere on it, and in the "Dexron VI"-class. Dexron HP works too. Nissan Matic S of course is great. Redline D6 or the Amsoil Fuel Efficient ATF are likely the best, longest lasting, but Dexron HP is very close. Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic ATF is very good as well. Mercon LV acceptable.
Watch the youtube video posted earlier. Support your car safely (jack stands and/or ramps, levelled).
I torqued the drain and fill magnetic plugs to 25 ft lbs.
Get cheap aluminum or copper crush washers to replace the old ones.
My Leaf is very new, only 1,740 miles, & I was curious about how much iron particles might be on the magnetic plugs. Plus I wanted to get the GroupIV based ATF in there to get a "sealed-for-life" status that Nissan says we already had with the OE Matic S from mile 1. ....
In the picture below, notice the iron dendrites, whose tips continuously get shed in the oil flow to crunch into the gear teeth to some extent.
Also, earlier in this thread, somebody else's Blackstone report showed a lot of iron suspended in the ATF fluid (120 ppm is high) at around 60k miles.
Gear teeth surface wear-in (break in) mostly happens in the first thousand miles out of the factory. After that there should be a lot less iron worn off.
Picture is of a '20 Leaf with only 1,740 miles! Enough metal there to make the Brooklyn Bridge. (OK, a very tiny scale one.)
I drained & filled all from under the car after removing the plastic under-shield. Easy to reach plugs.
An old trick is to put a magnet into the drain hole so you simply have that much more magnetic surface area, but it is best if the pan is iron as well, for adhesion.
That said, I have drained a few Leaf gear boxes, and most of them are nasty. It is like transfer cases or differentials, most people never even consider it, but I haven't seen what I would consider "terrible" fines on the magnet. Maybe 2-3x of yours, but one of them was claiming 80k miles, so not bad considering.
And you are right about the majority of the wear being in the first "few" miles... one of the reasons the first oil change for a new car should be at 200-500 miles.
A concern is if a magnet inserted would somehow get pushed up into the gear teeth (ouch!!) or on the side of a steel gear, imbalancing it. On the Chevy Bolt, they keep their internal magnet stuck to an oil baffle, right next to a big helical gear, and it could break free eventually. I prefer the Leaf's way of embedding 2 large magnets fixed securely to the drain plugs. My '19 Tiguan's Aisin auto tranny's magnet just sticks to the pan inside, prevented from "walking" around the pan (vibration over time) by small indentations, for comparison. To clean a Bolt or Tiguan magnet means you have to take off some large pieces, another advantage to the Leaf's drain plug magnets!Precise1 said:
Ford Focus Electric & the Leaf both have no oil pump, no cooling circuit, no filter inside. ........ By comparison, GM made the oil system surrounding it's Bolt reduction gears complicated, with a gerotor oil pump, a huge transmission fluid filter, and a non-reachable magnet inside. .... https://cleantechnica.com/2019/12/25/bolt-ev-drive-unit-deep-dive/
I prefer the simpler Ford & Nissan designs, easy to service, clean the magnets, not difficult. .. With the Bolt, it still looks easy to at least drain most of the fluid out and replace it but forget servicing the filter & magnet with any ease (sealed for life there.
Best to put in an ATF like all-PAO Amsoil Signature Series Fuel Efficient, or similar Redline D6, or Mobil 1 Dexron HP, since they have the best base oil chemistry to resist oxidation for more miles. Use of other ATF brands is fine, just change every 75,000 miles or so if using others. I think Amsoil/Redlne/DexronHP can hit 150k or 200k if you get the initial early break-in metal fragments out first.Precise1 said:
(A lot of ATF brands just buy "industry standard" Dexron VI additive chemicals from Lubrizol or Afton, etc., and then use Base Oil Interchange Rules to put in whatever level of longevity they are aiming for by using better base oils (PAO & POE, maybe GTL Group3+(?)) or cheaper base oils for the less expensive ATF oil on the shelves.)
I ran across an Eaton co. patent the other day ( https://patents.google.com/patent/DE60130835T2/en ) which said the Ra (RMS peaks/valleys asperities roughness) should be between about 3 microinches to 10, ideally. From the looks of my Leaf magnets above, taken out at only 1,700 miles from new, Nissan must just let the gear teeth polish themselves in normal usage down from, guessing, 30 microinches surface polish at the factory. Hopefully ending up at 3-to-10 microinches Ra from normal use! ... Don't know any exact factory original Ra target value here. ...... All similar to ICE engine wear surfaces, so, yes, change the break-in oil or ATF fluid early, then not so much from then on is fine.Precise1 said:
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Maybe another thread topic for later:
I discussed above how the Bolt's reduction gear lubrication & cooling design is way more complex than on many other EV's.
Funny how the Bolt is much more complicated than the Leaf in it's cooling system loops too.
The Bolt has 3 cooling circuits while the Leaf has only 1 (to cool the motor & electronics only) ..... Page 239 of:
https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2020/chevrolet/boltev/2020-chevrolet-bolt-owners-manual.pdf
I actually prefer the passively cooled Leaf batteries, using no liquid coolant, feasible since the Leaf uses unique battery design that should handle some extra temperature fluctuations better than some other battery designs seen on the road today. With 500,000 Leafs made so far, and only some early ones having trouble with too much heat, and/or with other work-arounds, Nissan engineers seem to know they can keep the design simpler. ....
Lately I've been comparing EV's. The Leaf (and Teslas) have been out so long that you'd think every new EV to come along would try to copy the relative simplicity to control costs & reliability better.
