Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:17 pm

Andy11 wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:10 am
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:59 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:01 am
Pro Pilot forces the driver to keep paying attention, and keep hands on the wheel. Since people are sleeping with Tesla's AP on, I don't think it behaves the same way.
People who sleep with AP are using a defeat device. otherwise they would've been forced to pay attention as well.
Sometimes AP works better than driver himself. It has better reaction for sure, we would have less car incidents if we have only AP cars on the road
I doubt it. AP is driver assistance software. There are still some edge cases that humans are better in, that's why the driver is supposed to stay involved in supervising AP. And as long as humans are still involved in driving, then there will continue to be room for error.

FSD is where the potential to remove human drivers come in. But that software isn't ready for general use yet.
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GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:42 pm

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:53 pm

IEVS:
Police Say Tesla Model 3 With Autopilot On Crashed Into Stationary Police Car
https://insideevs.com/news/495037/polic ... olice-car/


Not yet proven that A/P was being used, although given that A/P & AEB are unable to recognize stopped vehicles in many situations, which has resulted in numerous crashes into stationary emergency vehicles, it's certainly a possibility. Or it could just be an inattentive driver. Will post an update when available.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:45 pm

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3675987-m ... king_alpha

"A recent report from the National Safety Council reveals that motor vehicle-related fatalities in the U.S. (including pedestrians) jumped 8% in 2020, even as vehicle miles traveled slipped 13% amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

That meant a 13-year high of motor vehicle-related deaths despite the drop in miles and safer vehicle designs overall, Adam Jonas and team write. And the implied death rate saw its biggest spike (24%) since 1924.

The point of those thoughts? "Cars are getting safer all the time. It's the driver that's the main issue," Morgan Stanley says by way of turning to the topic of driver-assistance technology and autonomous driving."

There's no point in discussing how autopilot and other ADAS are abused and mis-used, because discussing that ignores the white-elephant issue that human driver errors pose the greatest risk to life and limb. The sooner we can get to actual FSD, the more lives will be saved overall. This is classic cracking-a-few-eggs-to-make-an-omelette scenario.
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:40 am

ABG:
Two die in Tesla crash in Texas with nobody behind the wheel
https://www.autoblog.com/2021/04/18/tes ... riverless/

Two men died after a Tesla vehicle, which was believed to be operating without anyone in the driver's seat, crashed into a tree on Saturday night north of Houston, authorities said.

“There was no one in the driver’s seat," Sgt. Cinthya Umanzor of the Harris County Constable Precinct 4 said.

The 2019 Tesla Model S was traveling at a high rate of speed, when it failed to negotiate a curve and went off the roadway, crashing to a tree and bursting into flames, local television station KHOU-TV said.

After the fire was extinguished, authorities located 2 occupants in the vehicle, with one in the front passenger seat while the other was in the back seat of the Tesla, the report said, citing Harris County Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman. . . .

Apparently yet another case where Tesla's failure to respond to the NTSB's safety recommendation led to unnecessary fatalities:
H-17-42: To the manufacturers of vehicles equipped with Level 2 automation systems . . . [names of manufacturers] - Develop applications to more effectively sense the driver's level of engagement and alert the driver when engagement is lacking while automated vehicle control systems are in use. (Status: Open -- Acceptable Response. Tesla Status: Open -- Unacceptable Response).

Meanwhile, Tesla has put a totally unready FSD in the hands of public Beta testers. The videos are concerning, since the whole point of ADS is that they should be safer than human drivers, rather than requiring human drivers to constantly correct dangerous mistakes being made by the system.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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SalisburySam
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:20 am

As things become more and more idiot-proof, the world makes better idiots.
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jlv
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:21 am

GRA wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:40 am
Apparently yet another case where Tesla's failure to respond to the NTSB's safety recommendation led to unnecessary fatalities:
To pull off this stunt (no one in the driver's seat, no hands on wheel), these two fools needed to defeat multiple driver presence features.
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GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:42 pm

jlv wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:21 am
GRA wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:40 am
Apparently yet another case where Tesla's failure to respond to the NTSB's safety recommendation led to unnecessary fatalities:
To pull off this stunt (no one in the driver's seat, no hands on wheel), these two fools needed to defeat multiple driver presence features.

That's certainly supposed to be the case. We'll have to see if they can recover the data that would give us more info. None of which excuses Tesla from not replying to the NTSB recommendation, or installing a driver-monitoring camera, which, whether alone or in combination, is the best currently available tech to ensure driver engagement. They can hardly claim that doing so would be too expensive, given the number of external cameras these cars have.

I suspect the car was also bring used outside the system's ODD (Operational Design Domain), which was another safety recommendation to manufacturers that Tesla chose to ignore.

It will also be interesting to see if the car was speeding while on A/P, as that's yet another area where Tesla chooses to put the public at greater risk from their system, again against NTSB recommendation.

Of course, NHTSA deserves an equal share of the blame, forvletting Tesla get away with this for 5 years after the first such A/P crash involving these factors; they too ignored NTSB recommendations.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:46 pm

SalisburySam wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:20 am
As things become more and more idiot-proof, the world makes better idiots.

Yet, if a manufacturer simply ignores taking steps to prevent entirely forseeable idiotic behavior when it's in their power to do so, they shouldn't escape their own responsibility.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

coulomb
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Re: Tesla's autopilot, on the road

Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:21 am

Elon Musk claims the car didn't have Auto Pilot engaged, and did not purchase Full Self Driving:

https://electrek.co/2021/04/19/elon-mus ... ore-177048
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