Official Tesla Model 3 thread

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
If you believe that Tesla is not going to build any more plants in the US, then you're right in that they won't bring a $25K car to the US. If instead you believe that Tesla will build several more plants in the US, each with increasing automation and cost reductions, then the $25K Tesla becomes inevitable. I expect that Tesla will have 10 plants in the US by 2030. And yes I do own Tesla stock.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
I have decided that a rated mile is just Tesla's version of a GID.
It isn't widely understood, to put it mildly, but Tesla's EPA Rated Miles (RM) is actually a fuel gauge. It is not, and was not intended to be, an estimate of how far the car can go. Rather, RM is the current SOC (Wh) of the battery times the EPA rated efficiency of the car, in miles/Wh. The only way one would get the displayed RM in range would be to drive at precisely the EPA rated efficiency of the car, which, of course, rarely happens.

Since this concept is confusing to Tesla newcomers, many of us recommend changing the display to %SOC and ignoring RM entirely. (It helps that Tesla navigation displays the real time estimate of %SOC at the selected destination in percent, not RM, so displaying RM isn't really useful anyway.)

At high freeway speeds the car uses more energy per mile than EPA rated efficiency. At lower speeds the car will use less energy than than EPA rated efficiency.

My S-60 is rated at 300 Wh/mile (= 3.33 miles/kWh) — yes, that's a lot worse than a Model 3! — and over the last 57,000 miles I have averaged about 270 Wh/mile (3.70 miles/kWh), despite tens of thousands of miles of freeway travel on road trips and living in a four seasons climate for local driving. So, on average, I beat the EPA rated efficiency quite handily, FWIW.
 
My 2019 through 2020 average for my Leaf SV+ is 4.2 miles/kWh (per Nissan Comnect), well above the epa in the sticker. I believe EV drivers, once they understand the dynamics, easily outperform their sticker, but they are good at setting expectations for new drivers. (I don't have a good way to estimate lifetime for the S+)

I still like the look of the model S over the 3/Y. Maybe one day when my kids are through college and I feel really crazy I will splurge on a base S.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
My 2019 through 2020 average for my Leaf SV+ is 4.2 miles/kWh (per Nissan Comnect), well above the epa in the sticker. I believe EV drivers, once they understand the dynamics, easily outperform their sticker, but they are good at setting expectations for new drivers. (I don't have a good way to estimate lifetime for the S+)

I still like the look of the model S over the 3/Y. Maybe one day when my kids are through college and I feel really crazy I will splurge on a base S.

Us as well. The S is a classy lady. We enjoy our 3 and it’s a good, quick fun to drive car. But the S feels like a step up for sure. Very possibly in our future. But in 4 years there will be more choices. Time will tell.
 
I am very happy with my recent delivery. It shines with the ceramic wax I applied myself and the paint is lovely. Maiden voyage went smoothly.
To be fair, my LEAFs and Bolt EV were also made well but the Model 3 is especially enjoyable.

LeftieBiker said:
Hey! Elon knows that Tesla fan, er, enthusiasts want their cars RIGHT NOW! They don't want to wait for them to be completely assembled and checked. And Tesla is never going to be able to sell everyone on the planet a Model 3 if they have to, you know, build them carefully...
 
First 1000 miles with SR+ mostly in Chill Mode:
198Wh/mi (about 5mi/kWh) LEAF S30 and BoltEV were 4.5. LEAF eco mode was no fun to use and BoltEV only had a sport mode.
 
It does not seem to matter much whether city or highway for me. The car must have really good aerodynamics to not consume a lot of power at 70 mph. My last freeway trip was 275 miles and 207 Wh/mi.
 
EVforRobert said:
It does not seem to matter much whether city or highway for me. The car must have really good aerodynamics to not consume a lot of power at 70 mph. My last freeway trip was 275 miles and 207 Wh/mi.

It should be a big difference because of the air friction at higher speeds, speeds below 55 MPH should give you numbers quite high (given your good high speed numbers), but I'm not sure how easy it is to separate that on a Tesla, never had much time to play with the interface on one.
 
The trip back consumed more energy because of leaving later in the day and encountering mid 90 degree temperatures and a big crosswind. Still, it only added a little to my total consumption over 1500 miles.
I don’t see any way to discover the percentage highway and city in the interface. I have taken freeway trips totaling 700 miles and the rest mixed. Still, there was a lot of thought put into Tesla’s UI/UX.
 
EVforRobert said:
I don’t see any way to discover the percentage highway and city in the interface. I have taken freeway trips totaling 700 miles and the rest mixed.
In my case my daily/local use is almost never highway (maybe about 2-3 miles a day are highway, but only one exit.

I have much better efficiency on trips than local use. I chalk this up to the car being very aerodynamic, the fact that I don't really push the speed too much (I generally set the cruise to about 5mph above), and the fact that for non-highway use, there tends to be a lot of start/stop and having to accelerate the heavy car over and over again, which winds up being more inefficient than the aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. Plus you have the inefficiency of getting the cabin to comfortable temperature at the beginning of a trip which is a larger percentage of each trip when driving locally versus a long trip. This is not technically a statement on the efficiency of the car in highway vs. city, but from a purely practical standpoint, it matters.

My lifetime efficiency (per TeslaFi) is 261 Wh/mile. But for a particular road trip I've taken 4 times now, my efficiency has been 210, 222, 222 (again!), and 265 Wh/mile. These were in July, July, September and March (hence the lower efficiency). Yes, part of that is due to the fact that two of the three were in the summer, but if for example I look at the month prior and following the 210 trip (July 2019), my efficiency was 247 Wh/mile in June and 265 Wh/mile in August. During July itself, in addition to the 210 Wh/mile trip, my local trips were 264, 253, 244, 250, 239, 229, 249, 226, 199 and 350.

Note: I put my aero wheel covers on for road trips and take them off for local.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
For the repeated trips, would you share the rough start and end point (general metro areas) to see what the posted speed limits are for the trip?

Metro area...that's a funny one considering the starting point!

Start is Potsdam, NY (or that general region) and end is Durham, NC, but I take I-81 all the way to Staunton, VA and then US-29 to Danville, VA and then NC-86 for the rest of the way. So the first 45 minutes is on US-11 which is 55mph speed limit except where it goes through towns. Then the next 500 miles or so are all interstate (I-81). In NY and PA the speed limit is mostly 65...MD is only 10 miles wide so we'll ignore that...WV and VA it's 70, US-29 varies...it actually goes up to 70mph for a small section, but it's mostly 55mph, as is NC-86.

If it helps, I can isolate the I-81 section (mostly) between Moosic, PA and Mt. Jackson, VA (272 miles) as I did that in one hop with 209 Wh/mile, average speed of 68mph and max speed of 77mph. Here's the link to the drive in TeslaFi: https://www.teslafi.com/shared.php?drive=39djbprD09kI5Av
 
209 watt hours per mile (4.8 miles/kWh) at 68mph for a relatively flat course is very good.

Even on a perfect hot humid day with neutral wind, my Leaf with aero rims would do no more than 4.4 miles/kWh or 227 watt hours per mile at 68 mph.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
209 watt hours per mile (4.8 miles/kWh) at 68mph for a relatively flat course is very good.

Even on a perfect hot humid day with neutral wind, my Leaf with aero rims would do no more than 4.4 miles/kWh or 227 watt hours per mile at 68 mph.

Yes, I am totally amazed out how slippery this car is on the highway.
 
lpickup said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
209 watt hours per mile (4.8 miles/kWh) at 68mph for a relatively flat course is very good.

Even on a perfect hot humid day with neutral wind, my Leaf with aero rims would do no more than 4.4 miles/kWh or 227 watt hours per mile at 68 mph.

Yes, I am totally amazed out how slippery this car is on the highway.

Tesla Mode 3 drag coefficient (CoD) is 0.23, the Nissan Leaf (both generations) drag coefficient is 0.28. You can't deny physics. :mrgreen: It may not mean much below 50 MPH, but once you starting getting that exponential increase in drag at higher speeds, Tesla is going to win the efficiency game every time. ;)

I do wonder how much better the Leaf *could* improve it one had the resources and didn't care what the vehicle looked like afterwards (like no side view mirrors on the outside for example :lol: )
 
Tires (and tire pressure) and other drivetrain components (motor, inverter) probably have an effect as well, although Tesla may have a detriment with their active thermal battery pack management system and greater weight (although on flat highway at constant speed, weight should not matter).

When I had my LEAF, the factory tires were able to deliver about 4.4mi/kWh (best case days), but as soon as I switched to Goodyear "eco" tires that the shop told me were specifically designed for hybrids (it was a Goodyear shop), the best I could I ever do was 4.2 kWh, and it was usually 4.0 or less. I probably wouldn't have cared too much except with my battery degradation I was needing every mile I could squeeze out of it, so I ended up going back to the factory spec Bridgestone Ecotopias at my next tire change.

I can't remember off the top of my head what tire pressure the LEAF spec'ed, but I'm thinking 35-36 psi, which at the time seemed high. My Tesla, however, specs 45 psi! I suspect that makes a huge difference.
 
Yeah, many of us run our Leafs at 44psi, which is the tire max pressure rating. Those of with a Leaf S+ and the smaller 16" tires also do a bit better as the car is physically lower to the road as a result (1/2") and both car/wheels are lighter. (Car also has lfewer electronics which has a little less overhead draw).

I am curious how much the power train efficiencies make a difference. Anecdotally, if feels like Tesla and Lesf drivers report similar efficiencies at low speeds, but guessing the Tesla drivers are driving a bit more aggressively.

The M3 efficiency at 70mph on a warm not-rainy day is certainly very impressive.
 
lpickup said:
Tires (and tire pressure) and other drivetrain components (motor, inverter) probably have an effect as well, although Tesla may have a detriment with their active thermal battery pack management system and greater weight (although on flat highway at constant speed, weight should not matter).

When I had my LEAF, the factory tires were able to deliver about 4.4mi/kWh (best case days), but as soon as I switched to Goodyear "eco" tires that the shop told me were specifically designed for hybrids (it was a Goodyear shop), the best I could I ever do was 4.2 kWh, and it was usually 4.0 or less. I probably wouldn't have cared too much except with my battery degradation I was needing every mile I could squeeze out of it, so I ended up going back to the factory spec Bridgestone Ecotopias at my next tire change.

I can't remember off the top of my head what tire pressure the LEAF spec'ed, but I'm thinking 35-36 psi, which at the time seemed high. My Tesla, however, specs 45 psi! I suspect that makes a huge difference.

Forget rolling resistance?

Tires can have a major impact on electric car range. Automakers often fit electric cars with low-rolling resistance tires to maximize range, albeit often at the expense of handling, as these tires offer less grip than conventional tires. That tradeoff appears to be worth it, however.


A recent Road & Track test showed that sticky performance tires reduced the range of a Volkswagen e-Golf by nearly 20%—leading one to wonder whether they're worth the handling improvement.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128745_tires-and-wheels-can-have-a-huge-effect-on-electric-car-range

A calculator; https://www.engineersedge.com/mechanics_machines/rolling_resistance_13633.htm
 
Back
Top