General EV sales topic

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
WetEV said:
GRA said:
WetEV said:
Could happen with any size battery and any rate of charge. I might do a 180 mile drive in the e-tron and return home, and need to take another 180 mile drive. Right. The larger the battery and the higher the rate of charge, the less likely this would ever happen.
Click to expand...
Seeing as how I limited where I drove to the radius of the car, as noted a longer range just boosts the useful radius. Doesn't change how long it takes me to replenish range from a low SoC.
Click to expand...

IF your goal is to "prove" that L1 isn't going to work, then driving the car to empty and not being able to take another trip is a good plan.

"Driving the radius" is a bad idea, most of the time.
Click to expand...


My goal that week was to use a BEV as if it were my only car in my situationtaking me to the places I use a car to get to, and see how that worked. Like the english admiral Jacky Fisher, I believe that the best scale for an experiment is 12 inches to the foot. The answer was that it was much too limiting. More range, more and faster charging infrastructure reduce the limitations, but still not enough for me given my heavily-skewed usage profile of mainly long trips. You have agreed in the past that's the case.


WetEV said:
GRA said:
Indeed, the issue is how much you need to drive the next day.
Click to expand...

With a small battery relative to daily use, of course. With a larger battery, there is more flexibility for spontaneous driving.
Click to expand...


Which is what I wrote, so I don't see any disagreement.


WetEV said:
GRA said:
Was the EVSE and install free, or did you have to pay anything?
Click to expand...

Free to me. Employer suggested, wasn't all my decision.
Click to expand...
 
Here is an interesting test of the eTron vs. the MachE. MachE wins of course, but more interesting is that the eTron suggests a range on par with the model Y.

https://youtu.be/8OygH2_9CeU
 
Ok, finally a couple Plus models showed up in Carvana. 20 SL Plus....34K USD. 20 SV Plus (no tech, weather) 30-31K USD. Wow, that feels steep.

M3s were still 30 and up.

Guess I don't feel too bad about my Plus purchases.

Anyone tried selling their Plus to Carvana?
 
Here is a chart of the German ADAC test. Notice how close PokerStars, Leaf and M3 SR+ are in terms of range.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/nuxzl1/adac_germany_tested_a_number_of_evs_according_to/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Here is a chart of the German ADAC test. Notice how close PokerStars, Leaf and M3 SR+ are in terms of range.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/nuxzl1/adac_germany_tested_a_number_of_evs_according_to/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Click to expand...
Notice the difference in battery sizes to reach similar ranges.
And notice that this is a summer test
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
My goal that week was to use a BEV as if it were my only car
Click to expand...

Perhaps you might, at least on paper, update your L1 "example" to a BEV built this century?
Click to expand...


How would that change the result, if I used the Bolt I drove for four days last October instead of the Think? I would have driven the Bolt farther away, as I in fact did. As it was, in order to fully charge the Bolt after I got back (charged to 80% in Tracy on the way, and had about 65% IIRR when I got home) before returning it to the owner (ca. 25 miles away), I had to drive 1.5 miles to some reasonably-priced L2 chargers and leave it there for 4.5 hours, walking to and from home, I wasn't going to pay Blink $0.59/kWh for L2 (only $0.49/kWh if I were a member). Unfortunately, I'd tried and failed to use the nearest EA QC on the outbound part of the trip, so that wasn't an option, and I didn't have EVgo membership so couldn't use the ones about 2.5 miles away from home. Given the Bolt's slow QC rate, it would have taken me an hour+ to charge even at a QC. L1 would have taken exactly the same amount of time in 2021 as it would have in 1997/8 for a given amount of range.

We are starting to see cars that can QC at a rate which, while still far short of liquid or gaseous fuels, at least approach the time of a stop at a fast food restaurant or grocery/drug store, e.g. the Ionic5's 18 minutes from 10-80%. I could live with that, given reasonably convenient QCs that were reliable, available and reasonably-priced, none of which is guaranteed at the moment.
 
Agreed at under 20 minutes, you are within a bathroom or fast food stop, as these are road trip stops only.

And yes Tesla is the efficiency king, especially since the Ionic 5 appears to be pretty thirsty. That said the MachE per wltp and reviewer sites with the bigger battery does appear to have more usable range (with lower efficiency so brute force). It is looking like the only real MY competitor currently.
 
I would think that if it really mattered to someone, sometime in the last 20 years they'd have figured out a way to have L2 charging at the place they live (either by working something out with the landlord or moving).
 
GRA said:
WetEV said:
GRA said:
My goal that week was to use a BEV as if it were my only car
Click to expand...

Perhaps you might, at least on paper, update your L1 "example" to a BEV built this century?
Click to expand...


How would that change the result, if I used the Bolt I drove for four days last October instead of the Think? I would have driven the Bolt farther away, as I in fact did.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering how long you can keep this up.

Think was a 20kWh battery car. Bolt was a 60kWh battery car. In 10 to 20 years, I'd expect to see comparative priced 180kWh battery cars.

So you drive 180kWh * 3 miles per kWh * 90% = 486 miles to "prove that L1 isn't convenient" as you can't drive another 30 miles without getting the battery too low.

Or perhaps a trip to the last remote corner of the country without good QC.

I got popcorn.
 
This actually is what excites me about Lucid. With 500 miles of range, as most never drive that far in a day, you can almost do without DC charging all together, providing your L2 at night is fast enough.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
This actually is what excites me about Lucid. With 500 miles of range, as most never drive that far in a day, you can almost do without DC charging all together, providing your L2 at night is fast enough.
Click to expand...

For every increase of total mileage, there will always be someone to complain that double should be better and make a case for why they should be able to drive 1,000 miles without having to charge. :lol:
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
WetEV said:
Perhaps you might, at least on paper, update your L1 "example" to a BEV built this century?
Click to expand...


How would that change the result, if I used the Bolt I drove for four days last October instead of the Think? I would have driven the Bolt farther away, as I in fact did.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering how long you can keep this up.

Think was a 20kWh battery car. Bolt was a 60kWh battery car. In 10 to 20 years, I'd expect to see comparative priced 180kWh battery cars.

So you drive 180kWh * 3 miles per kWh * 90% = 486 miles to "prove that L1 isn't convenient" as you can't drive another 30 miles without getting the battery too low.

Or perhaps a trip to the last remote corner of the country without good QC.

I got popcorn.
Click to expand...


You continuously choose to miss the point. Once you are arriving home with low range remaining, how much total range the car has is irrelevant to how long it takes to replenish what you need for even a modest trip, as that time is determined by the capacity of the circuit, not the car. It doesn't matter whether that car is from 1921, 2021 or 2121. I have already said (several times) that the radius at which this becomes an issue decreases the percentage of time this is an inconvenience. But since I use a car to take me quite far away from home, that percentage isn't low enough for me, yet. The presence of QCs reasonably close by (once I can rely on them) reduces the inconvenience considerably, but it's still greater than liquid or gas refueling - if I've got to drive the car somewhere to fuel up anyway, then I want the time to be as short as possible. Which is why I'm looking forward to trying the Ionic 5/EV6. Although I expect they'll still be too expensive and they're definitely too short-ranged, the light at the end of the tunnel is growing brighter.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Or, a bit closer to home, someone will complain that they can't buy it because they can't stretch out full length and sleep in it. ;)
Click to expand...


While that's a factor for me, I can't and won't buy it because it costs over $100k. OTOH, my current car cost me $24,344 out the door, and has a guaranteed 400 miles highway range plus reserve in any but awful conditions at 18 years of age. I think Tesla's cancellation of the Plaid + was an admission that they can't do 500 miles yet. Of course, it's not really 500 miles, as we're talking highway, plus allowances for reserve, HVAC, conditions, 80% charge, and degradation. What I want, to completely replace an ICE is at least 4 hours at 80 plus at least a 30 mile reserve, with no more than 30 minutes (20 minutes or less strongly preferred) charging to do it again, for the life of the car, conditions as above. My ICE does that routinely. No BEV let alone an affordable one can do this yet, but they're inching closer.
 
jlv said:
I would think that if it really mattered to someone, sometime in the last 20 years they'd have figured out a way to have L2 charging at the place they live (either by working something out with the landlord or moving).
Click to expand...


Working something out with the landlord was attempted and may still be possible, but until a ZEV meets my needs so it makes sense to get one, its not going to happen. As for moving, I can walk to all routine errands and bike to work and to the errands farther away, which is why my 18-year old car only has 71k miles on it, almost all road trips, and often sits in my driveway for weeks at a time. I suppose I could move to a location that required me to drive a car to get anywhere and thus justify getting L2 and a PEV, but that would be counter-productive environmentally, physically and financially.
 
GRA said:
You continuously choose to miss the point. Once you are arriving home with low range remaining, how much total range the car has is irrelevant to how long it takes to replenish what you need for even a modest trip, as that time is determined by the capacity of the circuit, not the car.
Click to expand...

No, I get your point. But your point isn't the whole subject.

I've lived on L1 at home.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
You continuously choose to miss the point. Once you are arriving home with low range remaining, how much total range the car has is irrelevant to how long it takes to replenish what you need for even a modest trip, as that time is determined by the capacity of the circuit, not the car.
Click to expand...

No, I get your point. But your point isn't the whole subject.

I've lived on L1 at home.
Click to expand...



And now you don't, and I've tried it long enough to know it would be constraining for me, albeit fast, convenient, reliable and reasonable cost QCs would eliminate most of that.

If L2 hadn't been a freebie, would you be content with L1 now that you've got a '200' mile BEV, or would of you stick with L1, accept the lower charging efficiency but avoid the hassle?

Speaking of which, via GCC:
Could urban charging deserts hinder ride-hailing EV adoption—and cleaner air?
Click to expand...

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...nder-ride-hailing-ev-adoption-and-cleaner-air


As a lack of Level 2 AC charging infrastructure gets in the way of EV ownership in some urban areas, the lack of fast-charging could slow electric ride-hailing adoption, according to new analysis from the clean-energy advocacy group Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI).

With so many vehicles from the likes of Uber and Lyft on city streets, electrifying ride-hailing will be an important part of reducing emissions. California has already mandated that a certain number of vehicle miles traveled (VMT) are electric starting in 2023. Uber and Lyft have pledged to make their ride-hailing services all-electric by 2030.

Yet meeting anticipated charging demand in Los Angeles would require the local public DC fast-charging network to grow three to six times by 2030, the analysis found.

Using anonymized data from General Motors' defunct Maven Gig (which rented cars to ride-hailing drivers) in L.A., RMI found that EV ride-hailing drivers generally stuck close to areas with existing charging stations.

Those stations tended to be located in higher-income areas, meaning less potential for air-quality improvements from electric ride-hailing in low-income areas, according to the analysis.

EVs put to use in ride hailing deliver more carbon benefits, a previous study sound. So it's especially important to get some of the fastest-charging stations in urban spaces.

Evenly distributing DC fast charging stations across the city would require a major buildout, but it would likely be financially sustainable for charging-network operators, the analysis found. Such an expanded network would see over 30% utilization, "more than enough" to support its construction and operation, according to RMI. . . .

The analysis noted that high site-development costs and unfavorable utility-rate structures still represent major obstacles for DC fast-charging infrastructure expansion. . . .

That means companies like Uber and Lyft may end up having to figure out charging for their drivers. U.K. startup Arrival is supposedly developing an electric car specifically for Uber, but the ride-hailing firm hasn't had much to say about charging.

Alternatively, California announced late last year that it would disperse $20 million to get more EVs to the underserved. The Clean Mobility Operations Voucher Pilot Program (CMO) was empowered to use that money to fund car-sharing and other mobility services using zero-emission vehicles.
Click to expand...


Direct link to download report: https://rmi.org/insight/ev-charging-for-all/
 
GRA said:
I've tried it long enough to know it would be constraining for me
Click to expand...
So is walking and bicycling. And breathing.

We all make choices. Yours is to pollute, and then spend your life rationalizing them at MNL.
 

Similar threads

G
GCC: J.D. Power: public charging issues may short-circuit EV growth
2
Replies
20
Views
4K
cwerdna
C
G
IEVS: 65% Of Ford Dealers Agree To Ford's Tough EV Selling Terms
Replies
0
Views
1K
GRA
G
G
GCR: Toyota thinks 85% of its new US vehicles will have tailpipes in 2030
Replies
0
Views
1K
GRA
G
G
ABG: States get final OK to build highway EV charging network A charger at least every 50 miles on interstates
Replies
1
Views
4K
GRA
G
G
GCC: Veloz: CA EV sales continue to grow
Replies
2
Views
1K
GRA
G

Latest posts

Back
Top