Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

GRA said:

Possibly, although odds are the owners are more likely to be CR members than the general public. As it is, the most recent California report estimated there were just under 8,000 on the road here this year.

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I have to admit, sometimes your posts rise to the level of entertainment.

CR collects about 300k surveys out of some 300M registered cars, or about 1/1000
So 8000 FCEVs are good for about 8 annual surveys, split by some 8 years and ~ 3 manufacturers. Call it 1/4 of a survey per model year

When FC owners are returning CR surveys at 250x their car brethren rate, you will have a chance of seeing them in the survey results.

That's okay by me. The number on the road is so small, and the model choice so limited right now, that the data hardly signifies when it comes to making a choice. At 50 or 100k on the road, with several more models to choose from, it may start to matter. In the meantime, it would cost CR a matter of a few extra minutes to define categories for them, so they might as well do that now along with the PEVs.

So this may be a dumb question, but given all the issues the Bolt and EUV have had, are people expecting to get big discounts on them when they go back on sale? (Or did they go back already on sale?)

I'm not aware of the stop sale being lifted as of last night and from a quick glance of https://www.chevybolt.org/whats-new/posts/.

It would need to be a '17 to '19 which have had either its pack replaced or all its battery modules replaced with ones deemed safe. For '20 to '22, either that would need to be done or they'd have to replace the defective ones (provided they came up w/a validated method of determining which ones are defective).

Of course, you can still buy Bolts from non-GM sources. They don't need to abide by the stop sale. People have been buying.

IEVS:

Some Dealers Are Buying Up Chevy Bolts Hoping For A Buyback
This was unexpected.

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https://insideevs.com/news/537032/dealers-buy-chevy-bolt-buyback/

The Chevrolet Bolt has become the Bad News Bears of 2021. Nearly a month ago General Motors announced it’s recalling every single Chevy Bolt ever made due to a potential fire risk. A defect within the battery system has so far caused 12 fires out of 147,000 Bolts produced and 3 injuries.

For many brands and models, this would be a death blow. Audi almost pulled out of North America due to a series of unintended acceleration recalls in the 1980s. In the 1990s, Ford installed over 13 million defective Firestone tires on its then-best-selling Ford Explorer. When the recall was made on those tires in August of 2000, Ford’s best-selling SUV never again reached its pre-recall sales numbers.

So why are some dealers buying up 2021 model year Bolts for more than $28,000, which is more than they retailed for just a few months ago? One dealer who wished to remain anonymous told us, “They [GM] are already going to pay half the value of the car with the new battery. Buybacks will be way cheaper for them. . . .”

The Financial Risks Are Minimal With A Voluntary Buyback On All Chevy Bolts

Car dealers live or die by understanding the free market. With prices for Chevy Bolts heading up in the wholesale markets instead of down, and with the six-million-vehicle-strong Manheim Auctions forecasting that a 2021 Chevy Bolt will lose no more than $100 in value over the next 12 months, the opportunity for a buyback program on all Chevy Bolts seems to be a surprisingly strong possibility, so dealers are responding by scooping them up.

Supply Is Way Down For New Cars

Thanks to the chip shortage, which is likely to last until at least 2023, new and used car prices have gone through the roof. This has helped keep the Chevy Bolts prices strong and steady.

The average used car is now worth nearly 25% more than it was worth a month ago according to Manheim Auctions. New car production has been slashed, in some cases by 40 percent, which has led to racetracks and stadiums filled to the brim with unsellable cars that are waiting for parts.

GM may not have much of a downside with a voluntary buyback offer if they decide to go in that direction because the shortage in inventory is allowing even unpopular models to sell for close to their MSRP. This is in very stark contrast to prior years where GM had to offer substantial rebates and incentives to sell the Chevy Bolt. . . .

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I received the email today at the OP of https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/important-safety-update-on-your-ev-email-from-gm.41026/. Also, recently, some recall instructions have gone out (I only saw excerpts last night (e.g. https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/issue-fixed-battery-production-resumed.40807/page-30#post-657583)) about what people are saying is entire pack replacement now, not dealers swapping out all the battery sections (rows) at least on '17 to '19.

Swapping out battery rows would require opening up the pack (IIRC, there are ~50 bolts or screws securing the cover) + lots of dealer labor including a "smoke" (leak) test, etc. I would guess that GM is having that work done at their factories and/or centralized repair depots.

I'm unclear about '20 to '22 right now. Busy with day job.

Update: There was also this post from a dealer tech on a private Bolt FB group. It was copy/pasted to https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/interesting-facebook-post-from-gm-tech.41035.

LG to pay up to $1.9 billion to General Motors over Bolt EV battery fires
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/lg-chem-to-pay-up-to-1point9-billion-to-gm-over-bolt-ev-battery-fires.html

General Motors, LG Electronics Reach Agreement on Bolt EV Recall Costs
LG will reimburse GM for recall costs and expenses
https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/oct/1012-boltev.html

At last we can stop hearing "We Didn't Start the Fire" being sung by both parties.

I'm seeing some chatter at like https://www.facebook.com/groups/chevroletevgroup/posts/1505853283104908/?comment_id=1505864219770481 about some folks about to get their packs replaced. Those are likely the highest risk groups as GM has said they would prioritize.

cwerdna said:

I'm seeing some chatter at like https://www.facebook.com/groups/chevroletevgroup/posts/1505853283104908/?comment_id=1505864219770481 about some folks about to get their packs replaced. Those are likely the highest risk groups as GM has said they would prioritize.

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Same here. Initial impressions say this will happen much quicker than I was expecting...

ABG:

GM extends Chevy Bolt production halt two more weeks
Production of improved battery has begun, so first GM has to prioritize replacements

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https://www.autoblog.com/2021/10/13/gm-chevy-bolt-production-halt-extended/

These are the procedures to dealers for swap out the bad packs.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCSB-21V560-3056.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCSB-21V650-2141.pdf

I've only had a chance to quickly skim. One is for 2017 to 2019 Bolts. The other is for 2020 to 2022 EV and EUV.

Update: Great. On Oct 15th, I received an email at work asking us not to bring our Bolts to work "until the recall is completed/there is a process in place to fix this". I just finished typing up a long reply to this.

Add my work to one of a bunch of places that are banning Bolts.

Oct 16 update: There are reports that some high priority people are in line to receive replacement packs. And, packs have started showing up at dealers:
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/post-when-you-are-notified-to-have-your-battery-replaced.41021/page-6#post-659340
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/post-when-you-are-notified-to-have-your-battery-replaced.41021/page-8#post-659861

If anyone cares, my buyback situation, some wrinkles + work Bolt ban situation are at:
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-2#post-673353
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-2#post-673718
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-3#post-675189
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-3#post-673989
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-3#post-674898

I have an entry in the table at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/.

On 12/9/21, I was informed that I will be allowed to bring my Bolt to work now that I got N212343883 (80% temp limiter patch) applied. It's what https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall under November 19, 2021 news refers to. But, I will need to park it on the roof of the parking structure away from the charging stations, elevator and other cars. And, I won't be allowed to charge it there, for now. It's an improvement over my previous workaround.

I'm on vacation now so it doesn't matter for the next few weeks. But, it's not the end of the world. The cost of EV juice to/from work is far less in $ than what I'd need to spend on food at home if I worked from home, which I don't like doing anyway. Food is free at my work. I also tended to visit free J1772 charging at a mall after work anyway once Bolts got banned at work.

Also, quite a few people (mostly '19 Bolt drivers w/Korean packs) have gotten their packs replaced already or been flipped to "881" where "remedy not yet available" is gone, meaning their VIN is eligible for a pack. See 1st table at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-replacement-recall-remedy-tracking-summary.41131/. '19 w/Korean packs seemed to be the riskiest.

I was surprised I got flipped to that state on 12/3/21 since I have a US-made pack '19. No US-pack Bolts were part of the original Nov 2020 recall where GM/LG originally thought the defects that could lead to fires were confined to Korean-made packs. It wasn't until ~Aug 2021 (https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/aug/0820-bolt.html) that all Bolts got added to the recall, regardless of where the pack came from.

Revision 02 at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/new-version-revision-02-of-battery-replacement-instructions-came-out.41360/ is the latest pack swap procedure. I've seen numerous reports of errors (high voltage system, I think) after packs have been swapped. In some cases, for sure it was low coolant (I saw a pic of an empty battery coolant tank posted by one person who hit this). The new rev emphasizes the need for the below:

Drain the drive motor battery cooling system. The high voltage battery must be drained completely using
the Vac-N-Fill Procedure before removal from the vehicle, static draining is not sufficient. The Vac-
N-Fill Procedure must also be used when refilling the drive motor battery cooling system. If the Vac-
N-Fill Procedure is not used, the customer will return to the dealership with a low coolant condition.
Refer to Drive Motor Battery Cooling System Draining and Filling in SI.

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The previous revs didn't have that verbiage.

Also, Bolt production halt has been extended until end of Jan 2022: https://insideevs.com/news/552069/chevrolet-bolt-production-halt-january28/.

danrjones said:

So this may be a dumb question, but given all the issues the Bolt and EUV have had, are people expecting to get big discounts on them when they go back on sale? (Or did they go back already on sale?)

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They are actually much much more expensive than they were early pandemic

I missed out on a $9999 2017 Bolt during lockdown

Very sad I didn’t drive 3 states away and get it.

Yep. They've gone up due to the used car shortage.

Cheapest I see at https://www.cars.com/shopping/results/?list_price_max=&makes[]=chevrolet&maximum_distance=all&models[]=chevrolet-bolt_ev&sort=list_price&stock_type=used&zip=00001 is now $15,950. There's a $16,550 and $16,950. The rest are $17K or higher. I think they were under $14K to start before the shortage.

The below are some example old data points:
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/used-2017-bolt-price-actually-increasing.34494/page-2#post-575855
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/used-2017-bolt-price-actually-increasing.34494/page-3#post-606428
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/used-2017-bolt-price-actually-increasing.34494/page-3#post-613553
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/used-2017-bolt-price-actually-increasing.34494/page-2#post-559638

cwerdna said:

If anyone cares, my buyback situation, some wrinkles + work Bolt ban situation are at:
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-2#post-673353
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-2#post-673718
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-3#post-675189
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-3#post-673989
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/page-3#post-674898

I have an entry in the table at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/repurchase-timeline-survey.41524/.

On 12/9/21, I was informed that I will be allowed to bring my Bolt to work now that I got N212343883 (80% temp limiter patch) applied. It's what https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall under November 19, 2021 news refers to. But, I will need to park it on the roof of the parking structure away from the charging stations, elevator and other cars. And, I won't be allowed to charge it there, for now. It's an improvement over my previous workaround.

I'm on vacation now so it doesn't matter for the next few weeks. But, it's not the end of the world. The cost of EV juice to/from work is far less in $ than what I'd need to spend on food at home if I worked from home, which I don't like doing anyway. Food is free at my work. I also tended to visit free J1772 charging at a mall after work anyway once Bolts got banned at work.

Also, quite a few people (mostly '19 Bolt drivers w/Korean packs) have gotten their packs replaced already or been flipped to "881" where "remedy not yet available" is gone, meaning their VIN is eligible for a pack. See 1st table at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-replacement-recall-remedy-tracking-summary.41131/. '19 w/Korean packs seemed to be the riskiest.

I was surprised I got flipped to that state on 12/3/21 since I have a US-made pack '19. No US-pack Bolts were part of the original Nov 2020 recall where GM/LG originally thought the defects that could lead to fires were confined to Korean-made packs. It wasn't until ~Aug 2021 (https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/aug/0820-bolt.html) that all Bolts got added to the recall, regardless of where the pack came from.

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If anyone cares, I finally received the buyback offer letter with dollar values this morning (posted about it at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/bolt-buybacks-for-california.37246/page-60#post-683295).

I'm really busy w/work + other things today so I won't have a chance to run the numbers. But, from first glance, it's a great offer and it's highly likely I will be taking it. If I had a really high mileage Bolt at the time of the request and got little or no Federal tax credit, the numbers wouldn't be so favorable/good.

I did use my Bolt for a road trip to So Cal last month (https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=32880, paying almost nothing for charging to/from and while there). Also went on at least 2 day trips (200 to 260ish miles in a day) due to EA's free juice, which is a big plus for CCS cars. CHAdeMO cars ummm... the lone charger at EA sites w/CHADeMO could be in use or down. That seemed kinda widespread during the free EA juice.

Good for you. Have you decided on a replacement?

Not really. Still a tossup between leasing Niro EV (CR reliability improved at a lot, whereas previously it was ruled out for me due to bad reliability ratings), Kona EV or Leaf. Lease takeover of a gen 2 Leaf is a possibility along with purchase of https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=615454#p615454 (but price MUST be right, as I'm hesitant to buy a CHAdeMO car). There's 1 viable Leaf on swapalease and two MNLers have reached out to me previously w/possible lease takeovers.

At https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/bolt-buybacks-for-california.37246/page-60#post-683304 I mentioned an auto broker that some guy at my work used to lease a Niro EV from So Cal (we're in Nor Cal).

The timing needs to work though which can be tricky due to lack of/sporadic supply. One sales creature at a Bay Area dealer I've been in touch with and (back on 12/19/21) he said he's getting in 5 Leafs in Jan 2022 and 3 were already pre-sold (deposits in on them).

I'm pretty sure ID.4 is a no for me: too much $, bad reliability and the free EA charging although isn't that valuable to me. Don't have time for constant road trips to make it worthwhile. My commute to/from work is short (under 13 miles each way) and I will be back to using free L2 charging here.

For giggles/satisfy curiosity the other day (and to answer someone's question), I tried configured the cheapest Model 3. ETA was Oct 2022. That's not going to work since I have no other car. And, of course, virtually none of my qualms that I had w/the 3 back in Dec 2018/Jan 2019 have been addressed... so again, it's paying a ton of $ for a car that doesn't have stuff I want and has a bunch of stuff I don't want.

cwerdna said:

Not really. Still a tossup between leasing Niro EV (CR reliability improved at a lot, whereas previously it was ruled out for me due to bad reliability ratings), Kona EV or Leaf. Lease takeover of a gen 2 Leaf is a possibility along with purchase of https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=615454#p615454 (but price MUST be right, as I'm hesitant to buy a CHAdeMO car). There's 1 viable Leaf on swapalease and two MNLers have reached out to me previously w/possible lease takeovers.

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It might be too far for you, but this dealer in TX has a 12 month lease $269/m with zero down. Scroll thru the banner ads at the top to see the Leaf deal. Model seems to be an SV Plus. You can check to see if they have a deal for an SV.
https://www.irvingnissan.com/

^^^
Thanks! I had to click the right arrows a bunch to see it. That is REALLY far so the car would need to be shipped. A 1 year lease is pretty weird. I wonder what's up with that. I do wonder if there are some residency requirements, as well. I might have to ping them even though I don't like black cars (if that's what they're offering).