What about electric mowers and outboards?

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So after 4 seasons of cutting a half acre yard with my EGO battery mower the battery is down to about 35% of what it cut new. About what I expected. Waiting for a single charge charge mid mow was a good break. Waiting for two charges is becoming tedious. Time for either a new battery or an upgraded mower depending on costs. Hoping for more options but supply chain issues has most delayed or low/no stock.
 
I just purchased a Mikita 36v BEM(battery electric mower) 21" self-propelled last week and have just used it once, it worked nice. It came with (4) 18v 5ah Mikita standard batteries and uses 2 of them in series, the other (2) sit in the mower but must be swapped out to use. They say you are supposed to get 40 minutes/2 batteries and it's about right, I probably got 40 minutes before having to swap batteries and then just used the replacements 10 min before I was done.
All in all, I'm happy, self-propelled, 21" and again uses the standard Mikita 18v LiOn batteries, easily available and usable in all my cordless Mikita tools. I bought the cheaper one($499) which had a plastic deck, the upgraded model was very similar but had a metal deck, was still 36v but all 4 batteries were used at the same time, had a faster 2 place battery charger but only ran for 1h for the (4) batteries so I'm guessing it might have had more power? mine is supposed to run for 1h 20m with its same 4 batteries, swapping the batteries at 40m.
Besides Mikita I saw Dewalt also had a cordless mower, it's $500 model lacked self propel, Ryobi also had one and I believe a couple more major cordless tool companies. I went with Mikita as I already had quite a few Mikita cordless tools and batteries. I got my mower at Home Depot but lots of other places seem to sell them now.
-Updated a few mistakes in specs
 
jjeff said:
. I went with Mikita as I already had quite a few Mikita cordless tools and batteries.

I’d switch to Makita for the same reason. Waiting to see if they make a mower with the new XGT 40V/80V
 
Makita tools are great, but the pricing can be horrific. I sometimes think that DeWalt pays Makita to jack up their prices, in order to make DeWalt's prices seem reasonable...
 
We have a Stihl which uses the same battery as the electric weed whacker, which BTW has plenty of power to run the circular saw blade for cutting lareger brush ands small trees- the blade gets about as much use as the string trimmer.... but I digress, the Stihl mower is a sturdy tool I believe.....
 
Foschas said:
So after 4 seasons of cutting a half acre yard with my EGO battery mower the battery is down to about 35% of what it cut new. About what I expected. Waiting for a single charge charge mid mow was a good break. Waiting for two charges is becoming tedious. Time for either a new battery or an upgraded mower depending on costs. Hoping for more options but supply chain issues has most delayed or low/no stock.

That's a shame. My "project" mower finally gave up the ghost after 6 years of use, but the battery pack is fine and was still offering about 38AH (nominal 40AH), and that was with undercharging and a good workload, the mower would pull upwards of 80 amps at peak. 8 LiFePO4 cells. It seems for now at least that (now called "LFP") cells may become a big deal for EVs. Somewhat less energy dense than new NMC cells but the durability makes them outshine after a few years and increasingly after. Fantastically better at tolerating sitting at full charge.
 
I bought a 20AH, 24V LiFePo4 Ping pack, hand built by Mr. Ping himself before he sold the company, back in 2014. A couple of the cells don't charge fully anymore, but on an old EZIP Trailz bicycle, 8 years later, it's still good for about 15 miles.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Makita tools are great, but the pricing can be horrific. I sometimes think that DeWalt pays Makita to jack up their prices, in order to make DeWalt's prices seem reasonable...
Interesting, in my area anyway I've found Dewalt and Makita to be similar prices for similar products, Milwaukee does seem to be a bit higher though and IMO all are top quality. Dewalt has a lot of different tools but lacked and still lacks one that cemented me to Makita, a nice "Dustbuster" style 18v vac and ours includes a long nozzle with a floor attachment for quick cordless vacuuming, albeit suction only, no motorized head. Mikita does make a nice HEPA smaller canister vac that I also have for shop vac versatility. They also make a very nice cordless upright vacuum more geared towards the commercial market I'd think, well at close to $1000 it's not really something I'd buy, as nice as it looks. Along the same vein, they sell a cordless backpack vac, commercially priced again.
I used to be a Dewalt guy and had lots of high quality nice 12v NiCad tools but I believe Makita was the first to offer a nice LiOn tool system so I switched brands, shortly after Dewalt came out with LiOn tools but by then it was too late, I had several Makita tools.
Besides the lawnmower, I also have a very nice 36v Makita cordless blower which has as much power as a 120v blower and rivals small gas blowers but is quieter and totally clean, it replaced an 18v rather wimpy Makita model I had prior.
As Foschas said Makita also has a newer 40/80v battery system but it won't be in my cards as I already have too many 18/36v tools and will stick with that standard until I'm no longer using tools. As mentioned so far Makita doesn't make a 40/80v mower although they do make a nice-looking leaf blower so I'm sure it's just a matter of time. Dewalt also has the 40/80v tools although basically each brand has it's own battery system and they are not compatible :(
 
Some tools offered by both Dewalt and Makita are similarly priced, but in most cases Makita is substantially more. I have a collection of tools that's about half and half. I'm still using a couple of DeWalt NiCad 18 volt XRP batteries, with one lithium battery for the high amperage tools.

Short PSA: don't buy Chinese clone batteries for Makita tools. The power level lights are jiggered to display Full until more than half the charge is gone, thus sort of hiding the low capacity, and they lose power retention fast. Wait until genuine Makita batteries are on sale, and get those. There are some decent DeWalt clones around, if you don't mind less capacity for much less money.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Short PSA: don't buy Chinese clone batteries for Makita tools. The power level lights are jiggered to display Full until more than half the charge is gone, thus sort of hiding the low capacity, and they lose power retention fast. Wait until genuine Makita batteries are on sale, and get those. There are some decent DeWalt clones around, if you don't mind less capacity for much less money.
+1
I bought just two generic 6ah batteries off Amazon.......and they are CRAP!
Not only do they not last as long as my OEM 3ah batteries but they also often refuse to charge, particularly if I run them down in the least. When I put them in my OEM Makita chargers the charger just flashes, telling me to replace the batteries. Sometimes if I keep inserting them a half a dozen times they will finally start to charge but other times I cannot get them to charge. I actually ended up purchasing 2 Mikata pigtail battery holders(oftentimes used to use your Makita batteries to power other things) and hooked them in parallel. I place a fully charged battery in one and a depleted generic Makita battery in the other. A minute later I'm able to charge the generic battery in my chargers. I believe the generic batteries get too low voltage and the chargers refuse to charge them as a protection. Putting the two batteries in parallel bypasses the chargers safety feature and allows it to charge, after that the charger will charge it. Yes I know it's probably not the safest thing to do but I do have a small amp meter between the two battery holders and would immediately disconnect one of the batteries if the amperage got too high.
A lot of screwing around to charge the batteries and again I would NOT purchase such knock-off batteries in the future. Actually, one of the reasons I got the mower was because it came with 4 5ah genuine Makita batteries and a dual-port charger. Just alone at retail prices the batteries and charger would cost more than the $499 I paid for the whole set including the mower :lol:
 
I just went through a 2 year slog in which I bought several clones, got them replaced or refunded as they failed, saw that the exact same batteries were going for anywhere from $12 to $100, and ended up buying a NOS made in Japan 5AH Makita battery, and via a sale, got 2 4AH Makita batteries and a Makita charger for slightly over $100. There is literally NO WAY to guarantee that you'll get a good clone, although the reviews help. Those aren't perfect either, though, as most people are fooled by the Full Battery indicator that stays for 50-60% of the charge.
 
Speaking of battery electric yard tools: a few years ago (probably approaching 10 years, now) I bought a Makita 36 volt chainsaw. This was when they were using a single, big, 36 volt battery rather than two 18 volt batteries. My housemate wasn't happy because she didn't think we needed a cordless chainsaw to go with the corded one we've had for many years, but I was concerned about storm damage in the form of fallen limbs. Anyway, not long after we bought it, we had a big storm, and our main sidewalk was filled with fallen limbs - BIG ones. The saw paid for itself that day. It then did so again a few months later. I've used it to clear storm damage, often with concurrent power outages, several times. It hadn't been used for a couple of years, so I got it out to make sure it was ready for a storm. I store it with an 80% charge - Makita was smart in having their chargers show when 80% is reached, even if you can't select that as a stopping point. Nearly any cordless power tool with a lithium battery would have a dead battery by now, but the saw battery had about a 60% charge. I removed and charged to battery to 80% again, cleaned it up, adjusted the chain tension (it uses a nifty, easy to use tool-less adjuster), filled the automatic oiler reservoir with vegetable-based chain oil, tested it, and now the saw is ready to pay for itself for about the fourth time.
 
^^^ yes I've been eyeing up a 36v(2x18v) Makita chain saw. I just have a small electric one now but thought it might go well with my other Makita 18v-based tools. I do notice they have 2 different designs for their chainsaws, one where the batteries sit on the top of the chainsaw and ones where the batteries sit on the rear,, do you have a preference?
Yes I remember seeing those 36v single batteries a while back but I'm kind of glad the 18vx2 standard took off as thats what I have, although I suppose the next big wave will be the 40v tools, rendering my 18/36v tools as second rate.
 
The battery is in the rear on my saw, and that works well for me. I don't know if I'd prefer it elsewhere. Something else I like about it is that you can store the saw with the battery in place, ready to use. There is no extra phantom drain if you do that.

It took me a while to realize it, but "20 volt" and "18 volt" batteries are essentially the same. They just started advertising the fully charged voltage, instead of the "nominal" voltage, which is closer to depleted than to full. I don't know if you can interchange the chargers, but they are nonetheless essentially the same batteries.
 
I'd think the nominal 18V would be the max. voltage at rest, with 20V the max. while under charge. Thus, a pair of "6V" golf cart batteries in series was about 12.6V fully charged but at rest, but might be as high as 14.4V under charge if that was the charge controller's cut-off voltage.

The time it takes for the battery to drop to its resting voltage varies with the chemistry - for the deep-cycle L-A golf cart cells you wanted to wait about 6-12 hours IIRR, although you could get a reasonably close reading after an hour or so.

Smaller Li-ions designed more as power batteries would probably take considerably less time.
 
I'd think the nominal 18V would be the max. voltage at rest, with 20V the max. while under charge. Thus, a pair of "6V" golf cart batteries in series was about 12.6V fully charged but at rest, but might be as high as 14.4V under charge if that was the charge controller's cut-off voltage.

I haven't done any voltage testing on power tool batteries, but in the case of e-bike batteries, the rest voltage when fully charged is much higher than that. I also have no knowledge of golf cart batteries, but small 12 volt batteries have a resting but fully charged voltage of about 13 volts. My 48 volt e-bike batteries read in the low fifties when fully charged. My 24 volt Ping packs have charged but rest voltages near 27. So I'd be surprised if the power tool batteries read that low when charged but off the charger.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I'd think the nominal 18V would be the max. voltage at rest, with 20V the max. while under charge. Thus, a pair of "6V" golf cart batteries in series was about 12.6V fully charged but at rest, but might be as high as 14.4V under charge if that was the charge controller's cut-off voltage.

I haven't done any voltage testing on power tool batteries, but in the case of e-bike batteries, the rest voltage when fully charged is much higher than that. I also have no knowledge of golf cart batteries, but small 12 volt batteries have a resting but fully charged voltage of about 13 volts. My 48 volt e-bike batteries read in the low fifties when fully charged. My 24 volt Ping packs have charged but rest voltages near 27. So I'd be surprised if the power tool batteries read that low when charged but off the charger.


Sure, the chemistry and the intended usage will cause the two values to differ widely. I was speaking generally of the difference between full-charge while under charge vs. at rest. And I expect both the "18V" and "20V" numbers to be broad category rather than specific, just like those "6V" golf cart batteries were actually 6.3V fully charged at rest, and could be well over 14 when charging.
 
We have some Old School NiCad-powered Black & Decker 18 volt yard tools - a pole saw and a weed wacker. I used the weed wacker yesterday, and after recharging the battery I measured the voltage with a full charge. I was correct earlier: the analog multimeter in the garage registered exactly 20 volts. So the main improvement in power tool batteries in going from "18 volt" to "20 volt" appears to be just a matter of the manufacturers using the fully charged voltage instead of the near-depleted voltage. Of course, it's still possible that the "20 volt" tools will read higher when full as well. I'll check that the next time I recharge one.

On a related note: my Ride1Up ST700 E-bike reads 55.6 volts when the "48 volt" battery pack is full. Since my 48 volt Magnum Metro batteries read considerably less than that when charged, I suspect that I got the optional "52 volt" battery by accident, for free.
 
bobkart said:
Just saw this:

https://www.costco.com/.product.100850666.html?&EMID=B2C_2022_0717_Patio_Backyard

Bought this one and returned it;

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-ONE-HP-18V-Brushless-16-in-Cordless-Battery-Walk-Behind-Push-Lawn-Mower-with-2-4-0-Ah-Batteries-and-1-Charger-P1190VNM/314600700

The low powered battery mowers are a waste of money. This one is powered by one 18V, 4Ah battery.
Assuming a 30 min (spec run-time - 40 min) at 18 volts and 8 amps, the motor power is 144 watts, not even one HP (.20 HP).
The mowing effort requires four passes (90 degrees apart) verses using my 2HP gas mower. Even the 40V (4 Ahr)
movers are a poor gas mover replacement.
 
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