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62kwh Leaf Plus Efficiency Posting
- Thread starter DougWantsALeaf
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BaronLithium
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DougWantsALeaf said:Stock tires with 16" EV01+ rims (about 5 lbs lighter than stock 16" rims) and 42psi.
One additional observation was that the AC in the S+ when set a couple degrees below ambient (say 86 when it's 90 out) once running for a few minutes only need about 400 watts/hr per Leaf Spy (sometimes as low as 350), yet kept the cabin with 4 of us very comfortable. I thought that looked like pretty good. I will need to test with the SV+ to compare.
Thanks for the info! The A/C observation is interesting in that I felt similarly just with two full size humans and two smaller mammals in the car. Granted it was 80 F outside, but I have noticed I can get by with less climate control than I would expect.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:Stock tires with 16" EV01+ rims (about 5 lbs lighter than stock 16" rims) and 42psi.
One additional observation was that the AC in the S+ when set a couple degrees below ambient (say 86 when it's 90 out) once running for a few minutes only need about 400 watts/hr per Leaf Spy (sometimes as low as 350), yet kept the cabin with 4 of us very comfortable. I thought that looked like pretty good. I will need to test with the SV+ to compare.
A/C runs on 50 watt increments and I see mine bouncing all over the place. I have mine set to 88º (my tribute to BTTF) but after the initial cooling period, it will settle to 100-300 watts. I can increase the "average" by increasing the fan speed but generally run mine on #2.
But would be interested to see what the difference is with the hybrid system.
And....
"400 watts/hr" is not a thing.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Alright: the AC was bouncing between 350 and 400 watts.
I have never seen it go down to 100.
I have never seen it go down to 100.
watchdoc
Well-known member
Do the S+ and SV+ have the same heat pump HVAC?
watchdoc said:Do the S+ and SV+ have the same heat pump HVAC?
No, none of the Leaf S cars have a heat pump, regardless of year or trim level. Most SV Leafs have it, although it was optional for about three years, so not all SVs have it. Every SL from 2013 on has the heat pump.
BaronLithium
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Quick report here: I recently had a long trip down I-95 from Washington DC to North Carolina. Ran the A/C the whole time, and it ran fairly cold for the majority of the trip. Started fully charged from home at an ambient temperature of 85 F, tires a bit over-inflated (stock SV Plus tires at 45 psi) then drove around 110 miles to Richmond, VA and topped up at a EVgo station. That leg of the trip we averaged around 3.7 mi/kWh, and went 65 mph and 70 mph for speeds.
Next leg after that was 122 miles to an Electrify America station, speeds at primarily 70 mph again. Ambient temperature had dropped (sun had just set) down to 80 F. This leg we only got 3.4 mi/kWh.
After topping up at the Electrify America station, we drove another 60 miles down I-95 and held our speed to 65 mph. This leg we still could only obtain 3.5 mi/kWh.
Had anyone else experienced anything like this? I don't know if there was a change in the wind or if the battery was hot enough to reduce the efficiency on those later legs. Or am I missing some other variable in the efficiency equation?
Next leg after that was 122 miles to an Electrify America station, speeds at primarily 70 mph again. Ambient temperature had dropped (sun had just set) down to 80 F. This leg we only got 3.4 mi/kWh.
After topping up at the Electrify America station, we drove another 60 miles down I-95 and held our speed to 65 mph. This leg we still could only obtain 3.5 mi/kWh.
Had anyone else experienced anything like this? I don't know if there was a change in the wind or if the battery was hot enough to reduce the efficiency on those later legs. Or am I missing some other variable in the efficiency equation?
BaronLithium said:Quick report here: I recently had a long trip down I-95 from Washington DC to North Carolina. Ran the A/C the whole time, and it ran fairly cold for the majority of the trip. Started fully charged from home at an ambient temperature of 85 F, tires a bit over-inflated (stock SV Plus tires at 45 psi) then drove around 110 miles to Richmond, VA and topped up at a EVgo station. That leg of the trip we averaged around 3.7 mi/kWh, and went 65 mph and 70 mph for speeds.
Next leg after that was 122 miles to an Electrify America station, speeds at primarily 70 mph again. Ambient temperature had dropped (sun had just set) down to 80 F. This leg we only got 3.4 mi/kWh.
After topping up at the Electrify America station, we drove another 60 miles down I-95 and held our speed to 65 mph. This leg we still could only obtain 3.5 mi/kWh.
Had anyone else experienced anything like this? I don't know if there was a change in the wind or if the battery was hot enough to reduce the efficiency on those later legs. Or am I missing some other variable in the efficiency equation?
And the problem is? Next time try driving at 55 mph and monitor your efficiency, and consider measurement error.
BaronLithium
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lorenfb said:And the problem is?
I guess I'm trying to get a feel for what the normal expected range of efficiency is for this car. I'm still learning how to tune my internal gauge for what I should be expecting for highway range in less than optimal ambient conditions.
BaronLithium said:lorenfb said:And the problem is?
I guess I'm trying to get a feel for what the normal expected range of efficiency is for this car. I'm still learning how to tune my internal gauge for what I should be expecting for highway range in less than optimal ambient conditions.
Glad you're concerned about efficiency. A key factor for efficiency is vehicle speed, as with any vehicle.
It's the vehicle's drag loss, which is the square of vehicle speed. As an example, a vehicle at 70 MPH versus
one at 55 MPH has a drag loss that's much greater, (70/55)^2 or about 62% greater. I typically drive at 55 MPH
and get about 4.8 to 5.1 miles/kWh, i.e. on level roads without a wind factor. When discussing BEV efficiencies,
one needs to correlate that to vehicle speed.
Your efficiency of 3.4 to 3.7 mi/kWh is about right for the 70 mi/hr speed you were driving. Differences in elevation and wind can easily make the difference between the lower and higher numbers.
Yes, and it can't be emphasized enough that speeds above 60MPH will kill your efficiency and range. 65MPH is a fair compromise; it still saps range, but not like going 70+...
LeftieBiker said:Yes, and it can't be emphasized enough that speeds above 60MPH will kill your efficiency and range. 65MPH is a fair compromise; it still saps range, but not like going 70+...
You make it sound like there is a cliff.
Aero drag is proportional to the square of velocity
e.g: 70 mph has (7/6)^2 the aero drag of 60 mph
No, I'm taking into account speed limits and cultural norms. You can get away with going 65MPH in a 65MPH zone, but drop to 45 to get great range and you're both in real danger and Public Enemy #1.
watchdoc
Well-known member
BaronLithium said:Quick report here: I recently had a long trip down I-95 from Washington DC to North Carolina. Ran the A/C the whole time, and it ran fairly cold for the majority of the trip. Started fully charged from home at an ambient temperature of 85 F, tires a bit over-inflated (stock SV Plus tires at 45 psi) then drove around 110 miles to Richmond, VA and topped up at a EVgo station. That leg of the trip we averaged around 3.7 mi/kWh, and went 65 mph and 70 mph for speeds.
Next leg after that was 122 miles to an Electrify America station, speeds at primarily 70 mph again. Ambient temperature had dropped (sun had just set) down to 80 F. This leg we only got 3.4 mi/kWh.
After topping up at the Electrify America station, we drove another 60 miles down I-95 and held our speed to 65 mph. This leg we still could only obtain 3.5 mi/kWh.
Had anyone else experienced anything like this? I don't know if there was a change in the wind or if the battery was hot enough to reduce the efficiency on those later legs. Or am I missing some other variable in the efficiency equation?
I'm not sure what your destination in North Carolina was but DC to Wilson, NC (middle of the state) is only about 262 miles. Why did you choose frequent short stops over a single long stop? What was your total drive time including charging?
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
BaronLithium said:Quick report here: I recently had a long trip down I-95 from Washington DC to North Carolina. Ran the A/C the whole time, and it ran fairly cold for the majority of the trip. Started fully charged from home at an ambient temperature of 85 F, tires a bit over-inflated (stock SV Plus tires at 45 psi) then drove around 110 miles to Richmond, VA and topped up at a EVgo station. That leg of the trip we averaged around 3.7 mi/kWh, and went 65 mph and 70 mph for speeds.
Next leg after that was 122 miles to an Electrify America station, speeds at primarily 70 mph again. Ambient temperature had dropped (sun had just set) down to 80 F. This leg we only got 3.4 mi/kWh.
After topping up at the Electrify America station, we drove another 60 miles down I-95 and held our speed to 65 mph. This leg we still could only obtain 3.5 mi/kWh.
Had anyone else experienced anything like this? I don't know if there was a change in the wind or if the battery was hot enough to reduce the efficiency on those later legs. Or am I missing some other variable in the efficiency equation?
I take it you are resetting the trip computer after every charging session?
Lets talk about driving and how "we" perceive our driving to be. We always think we have the steadiest foot on the planet. We couldn't be more wrong. But beyond that, its power that affects efficiency the most, not speed (although it has a major impact as well).
Finally, Plugshare is your friend. Your Richmond stop looks to have a near 200 foot drop in elevation from your starting point. I have no idea how close the data is because you don't provide those details but the moral of the story is YMMV
Finally; a comment on your charging regimen. You get the least bang for your buck as the starting SOC of your charge session rises. You did nothing but charge to the top half of the pack. Does EVgo charge per minute there? If so, you doubled your charging costs at the least.
DaveinOlyWA said:But beyond that, its power that affects efficiency the most, not speed (although it has a major impact as well).
No. Not even close to being true for the middle 70% of the power curve
BaronLithium
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watchdoc said:I'm not sure what your destination in North Carolina was but DC to Wilson, NC (middle of the state) is only about 262 miles. Why did you choose frequent short stops over a single long stop? What was your total drive time including charging?
Destination was Benson, NC so not too far off. ABRP initially planned on us making two stops before getting to the hotel to charge overnight. When I made the reservation 3 weeks ago, the chargers at the Hampton Inn were reported as functional. I didn't bother to re-check before we left (my fault) and turns out they were now broken. I don't currently own a tesla tap adapter, so I also couldn't use the still functional tesla destination charger.
As a result of this discovery, we decided to skip our planned stop and hit an electrify america charger for a longer charge so we would have enough range for another quick charge the next day.
Total travel time was around 7 hours with the two stops. Charge time was around 35 minutes at each stop.
BaronLithium
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DaveinOlyWA said:I take it you are resetting the trip computer after every charging session?
Admittedly, after the first charge I had my wife drive and I forgot to reset the computer when we left. So I'm going off of the Nissan app reports, which from what I saw when I asked her to switch the display over are fairly accurate.
DaveinOlyWA said:Lets talk about driving and how "we" perceive our driving to be. We always think we have the steadiest foot on the planet. We couldn't be more wrong. But beyond that, its power that affects efficiency the most, not speed (although it has a major impact as well).
Good point on the driving perception. I was running cruise control for the majority of the trip, which I'm guessing is less than ideal. I know cruise should take some efficiency away in traffic with how hard it likes to accelerate/decelerate with the adaptive cruise. Our trip ended up being from 1830 to 0130 the next morning, so we didn't hit a lot of traffic.
DaveinOlyWA said:Finally, Plugshare is your friend. Your Richmond stop looks to have a near 200 foot drop in elevation from your starting point. I have no idea how close the data is because you don't provide those details but the moral of the story is YMMV
Finally; a comment on your charging regimen. You get the least bang for your buck as the starting SOC of your charge session rises. You did nothing but charge to the top half of the pack. Does EVgo charge per minute there? If so, you doubled your charging costs at the least.
The fee is by the kWh at these EVgo stations. We planned stops by ABRP more or less. Our 2nd stop was only supposed to be a quick stop but we discovered late in the game that the hotel's charger was broken.
SageBrush said:DaveinOlyWA said:But beyond that, its power that affects efficiency the most, not speed (although it has a major impact as well).
No. Not even close to being true for the middle 70% of the power curve
Unfortunately some express their naivete, confusing others new to BEVs.
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