2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

As of today, my '16 SV is at a SOH of 72.10% with 74833 miles on it (been below 72.5% SOH since 8/14). In a FB post within the Nissan Leaf Owners group someone was saying that there is a 30 day timer before the bar will drop. Can anyone confirm that this is true/accurate?

"...the 30 days is what the on board computer delays the 4th bar to drop after “it” thinks you’ve dropped under 67%. The OBC. Does not always agree with leaf spy the are not in perfect agreement. It doesn’t care what the leaf spy says. Leaf spy is just a good approximation"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/posts/3979162728821205/?comment_id=3979193715484773&reply_comment_id=4137585992978877

Either way... seems like I'll have approximately 600 days / 25K miles for that 4th bar to drop.

mn4az said:

As of today, my '16 SV is at a SOH of 72.10% with 74833 miles on it (been below 72.5% SOH since 8/14). In a FB post within the Nissan Leaf Owners group someone was saying that there is a 30 day timer before the bar will drop. Can anyone confirm that this is true/accurate?

"...the 30 days is what the on board computer delays the 4th bar to drop after “it” thinks you’ve dropped under 67%. The OBC. Does not always agree with leaf spy the are not in perfect agreement. It doesn’t care what the leaf spy says. Leaf spy is just a good approximation"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/posts/3979162728821205/?comment_id=3979193715484773&reply_comment_id=4137585992978877

Either way... seems like I'll have approximately 600 days / 25K miles for that 4th bar to drop.

Click to expand...

I can confirm that the above FB comment is not true/accurate. Today, 7 days after LeafSpy registered a SOH in which the 3rd bar should drop, it dropped.

mn4az said:

mn4az said:

Welp... if finally happened.... Lost my first bar....

Date 10/24/2019
AHr 67,11
SOH 84.43
V 395.01
Hx 62.19%
ODO 50731
QC 13
L1/L2 2588
SOC 97.50%
GIDS 307
kWh 23.8

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2nd bar gone

Date 6/2/2021
AHr 62.57
SOH 78.73
V 395.43
Hx 52.78
ODO 61865
QC 19
L1/L2 3141
SOC 97.70%
GIDS 286
kWh 22.2

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3rd bar gone

Date 8/26/2022
AHr 57.02
SOH 71.74
V 395.2
Hx 41.08
ODO 75041
QC 28
L1/L2 3830
SOC 97.80%
GIDS 261
kWh 20.2

Data indicates degradation is happening faster as I lose bars:

BMS update (6/21/2018 @ 32643 miles) to 1st bar loss (10/24/2019 @ 50731 miles) was 2.28 SOH drop per 5K miles driven
BMS update (6/21/2018 @ 32643 miles) to 2nd bar loss (6/2/21 @ 61865 miles) was 2.39 SOH drop per 5k miles driven
BMS update (6/21/2018 @ 32643 miles) to 3rd bar loss (8/26/22 @ 75041 miles) was 2.47 SOH drop per 5k miles driven

I have 616 days and 24,959 miles in which that 4th bar loss needs to happen for a battery degradation warranty to be claimed.

Anyone else having trouble with their warranty replacement? I took mine in to get the work started over a month ago, and have still been told that they're still waiting for the replacement battery pack. The dealer thinks it might be another month of waiting?! Anyone else had to wait this long?

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Anyone else having trouble with their warranty replacement? I took mine in to get the work started over a month ago, and have still been told that they're still waiting for the replacement battery pack. The dealer thinks it might be another month of waiting?! Anyone else had to wait this long?

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Maybe my middle-aged brain is playing tricks on me, but it seems to me that in this massive thread there are people who have waited up to 3 months for their pack to arrive. Fingers crossed that your replacement pack comes in soon.

Side question: Did you follow the battery check maintenance schedule and if not, did you get any pushback for not having it done?

mn4az said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Anyone else having trouble with their warranty replacement? I took mine in to get the work started over a month ago, and have still been told that they're still waiting for the replacement battery pack. The dealer thinks it might be another month of waiting?! Anyone else had to wait this long?

Click to expand...

Maybe my middle-aged brain is playing tricks on me, but it seems to me that in this massive thread there are people who have waited up to 3 months for their pack to arrive. Fingers crossed that your replacement pack comes in soon.

Side question: Did you follow the battery check maintenance schedule and if not, did you get any pushback for not having it done?

Click to expand...

Nope, didn't follow up religously (did get the first two done, but not any of the subsequent ones, because the check was a joke - I got more info through LeafSpy than the dealer's battery check).

But I didn't get any push back either. It was a little annoying (but not surprised) that I had to explain to the service tech what needed to be done, because they've never done it before! Considering how many Leafs there are in So Cal, I guess not many have the 2016-2017's.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

mn4az said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

Anyone else having trouble with their warranty replacement? I took mine in to get the work started over a month ago, and have still been told that they're still waiting for the replacement battery pack. The dealer thinks it might be another month of waiting?! Anyone else had to wait this long?

Click to expand...

Maybe my middle-aged brain is playing tricks on me, but it seems to me that in this massive thread there are people who have waited up to 3 months for their pack to arrive. Fingers crossed that your replacement pack comes in soon.

Side question: Did you follow the battery check maintenance schedule and if not, did you get any pushback for not having it done?

Click to expand...

Nope, didn't follow up religously (did get the first two done, but not any of the subsequent ones, because the check was a joke - I got more info through LeafSpy than the dealer's battery check).

But I didn't get any push back either. It was a little annoying (but not surprised) that I had to explain to the service tech what needed to be done, because they've never done it before! Considering how many Leafs there are in So Cal, I guess not many have the 2016-2017's.

Click to expand...

Appreciate the insights. I look forward to hearing about the rest of your experience (including a bit more on your service tech convo) as I'm very likely 12 - 14 months behind you and very much looking forward to getting some range back. Minnesota winters are a bit brutal on range with only 20 kWh usable capacity.

I retested my method of freezing declining State Of Health on our new Feb 2020 40 kWh replacement battery pack.

Its been about 2 weeks since we got 103K mile 2015 Toyota Prius C when I opened the 12v negative battery cable switch on our 2016 Leaf. SOH is still reading 94.97%.SOH.

As long as I have the Prius C (fun 50 MPG vehicle) I plan to keep the Leaf on ice when daily highs are 90+F.

I'm glad I learned this trick by accident while the car was off the road for 18 months for rebuild after it got totaled.

Gale, you need to understand that this is basically a trick that fools the BMS into never reporting the actual SOH. You can't halt degradation in a lithium battery just by confusing the battery management system.

^^ this

LeftieBiker said:

Gale, you need to understand that this is basically a trick that fools the BMS into never reporting the actual SOH. You can't halt degradation in a lithium battery just by confusing the battery management system.

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LeftieBiker you have said this before.

The readers need the science behind your personal opinion on this subject before we can judge the validity of you opinion.

Currently all I have is the SOH history in Leaf Spy Pro that reports when I electrically isolate the 40 kWh Leaf traction battery by removing the 12 volt negative battery cable that the SOH doesn't improve or decline.

When you repeat my testing procedure do get a different outcome?

I have spent $13.5K USD cash and countless man-hours in trying to be able to understand why the OEM 30 kWh battery triggered the replacement warranty at 25K miles/42 months.

The 2016 Nissan Leaf was purchased as a test bed of so the family going forward hopefully can make better EV buying decisions.

The 103K mile 2015 Toyota Prius C was purchased as a test bed to understand what that complex aging technology offers if any validity and if yes under what sets of conditions.

I'm 71 and the kids are closing in on 25.

Looking forward to reading your scientific data supporting your opinion.

Just read ANYTHING on lithium batteries. There is zero mention of degradation being halted by any means, including by disabling the BMS. You'd have to have something like a stasis field to be able to turn the degradation completely off and on.

LeftieBiker said:

Just read ANYTHING on lithium batteries. There is zero mention of degradation being halted by any means, including by disabling the BMS. You'd have to have something like a stasis field to be able to turn the degradation completely off and on.

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A car sized freezer would come close. :lol:

LeftieBiker said:

Just read ANYTHING on lithium batteries. There is zero mention of degradation being halted by any means, including by disabling the BMS. You'd have to have something like a stasis field to be able to turn the degradation completely off and on.

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https://youtu.be/imjbyeS1caI

This is from a BMS maker shows factors impacting EV battery SOH values. Properly stored used EV batteries do not have to suffer the same rate of SOH. Try it sometime if your Leaf is going be parked for a couple weeks.

I found no freezing of SOH values from isolation of the 12v battery overnight after charging.

Has anyone else experienced my test results?

I am looking forward to more testing next summer of parking the Leaf with the traction battery isolated during temperatures above 90° Fahrenheit.

Yes, it's well known that storing a lithium battery under optimal conditions will result in slower loss of health. That has nothing to do with disconnecting the BMS and claiming that doing that greatly slows or stops degradation.

LeftieBiker said:

Yes, it's well known that storing a lithium battery under optimal conditions will result in slower loss of health. That has nothing to do with disconnecting the BMS and claiming that doing that greatly slows or stops degradation.

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You are free to make your narrative and you know I said nothing about a BMS.

I'm just thankful that I stumbled up on a way to freeze the loss of state of health issue.

Anyone with LSP and a way to remove the negative 12v battery cable can test my findings. If you come up with any science that gives your theory legs please post.

GaleHawkins said:

I'm just thankful that I stumbled up on a way to freeze the loss of state of health issue.

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I think you found a way to freeze the SOH reporting. It is far from obvious that you froze degradation, and we should all agree that the former does not prove the latter. I consider the latter so improbable that I leave it to you to prove it is true.

You're right, Gale: you didn't mention the BMS. But by disconnecting the 12 volt battery, I think that you are preventing the BMS from functioning properly - at least for some of its functions.

SageBrush said:

GaleHawkins said:

I'm just thankful that I stumbled up on a way to freeze the loss of state of health issue.

Click to expand...

I think you found a way to freeze the SOH reporting. It is far from obvious that you froze degradation, and we should all agree that the former does not prove the latter. I consider the latter so improbable that I leave it to you to prove it is true.

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I proved it true over a year ago and is why it is sitting in the driveway with the 12v negative post blade switch open currently while I am experimenting with the Prius C in EV mode.

Take your Leafs wiring wiring diagram and post HV traction battery path to ground with 12 volt battery electrically removed from the car.

GaleHawkins said:

I proved it true over a year ago

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How ?