mn4az
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Prior Lake, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:07 pm Back on topic. The dealership finally came back with an ETA! It'll be another month, because the warranty replacement batteries (~400 of them) are ALL coming in from a factory in Japan!! I hope they didn't deliberately build new 30kwh packs just to satisfy these warranty claims! It'll mean they've met their warranty obligations, but also that I've missed out on the battery lottery. Oh well, can only keep my fingers crossed.
Am I reading this right.... Your dealership has a backlog of 400 warranty replacements?
Original Owner '16 Leaf SV
Mfg Date: 12/15
Purchase Date: 5/4/16
1st bar loss: 10/24/19 @ 50731 miles | SOH 84.43%
2nd bar loss: 6/2/21 @ 61865 miles | SOH 78.73%
3rd bar loss: 8/26/22 @ 75041 miles | SOH 71.75%
4th bar loss: Expected Summer '23
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 997
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

mn4az wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 12:31 pm
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 4:07 pm Back on topic. The dealership finally came back with an ETA! It'll be another month, because the warranty replacement batteries (~400 of them) are ALL coming in from a factory in Japan!! I hope they didn't deliberately build new 30kwh packs just to satisfy these warranty claims! It'll mean they've met their warranty obligations, but also that I've missed out on the battery lottery. Oh well, can only keep my fingers crossed.
Am I reading this right.... Your dealership has a backlog of 400 warranty replacements?
Sorry, I should've typed it out. The dealership contacted Nissan HQ asking about the battery replacement status, and was told that they (Nissan) had ~400 warranty replacement battery packs to build and ship, so it would take ~1 month. This particular dealership had never done a Leaf battery pack replacement (under warranty) before, so I guess the 400 packs is for the entire US (or maybe even globally?).
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
GaleHawkins
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

In January 2020 our battery replacement was a first time for the Jackson TN dealership.

Does anyone know if the Smyrna plant in Tennessee is still building the Leaf line?

400 cars in the USA waiting for leaf battery replacement sounds reasonable. I was told the battery for the 40 is was $12,500 00 and the labor was 500 if that is factual or not I do not know but they made a case that I was getting $13,000 of money from their company the corporation. I just got my car back before the lockdown started from the pandemic.
awhile
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 01 Nov 2018
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Two year update.
Two years since I received new 40 kWh replacement battery for my 2016 Leaf SV.

According to LeafSpy Pro,
I can charge to: 35 kWh
AHr = 105
SOH = 91%
GIDS = 453
Hx = 109%

Odometer 81k miles. I added 10k miles in two years since battery
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 8/2016. New 40 kWh replacement battery installed 9/2020 under warranty.
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 997
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

awhile wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:07 am Two year update.
Two years since I received new 40 kWh replacement battery for my 2016 Leaf SV.

According to LeafSpy Pro,
I can charge to: 35 kWh
AHr = 105
SOH = 91%
GIDS = 453
Hx = 109%

Odometer 81k miles. I added 10k miles in two years since battery
Wow! So the new battery is degrading just as quickly as the 30kwh one!?!?!

Did you try to preserve the battery (kept charge level below 80% and above 20%, kept it parked in garage or under shade, no DC fast charges, etc) since getting the new battery?
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
awhile
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 01 Nov 2018
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:21 am Wow! So the new battery is degrading just as quickly as the 30kwh one!?!?!

Did you try to preserve the battery (kept charge level below 80% and above 20%, kept it parked in garage or under shade, no DC fast charges, etc) since getting the new battery?
Yes to all the above except shade. I park outside in the sun on my white concrete driveway.

I charge at home. I keep vehicle between 20-80% except for the rare case where I need to drive long distance for the day. But at 100% charge it never sits around for more than 8 hours before my trip. I never DC fast charge. Rarely charge anywhere but at home with Level 2 JuiceBox. Temperatures here in coastal San Diego rarely get above 80 degrees, although the past 1 month has been hot and battery temperature stayed in the 80's (battery never got to 90).

But I've been parking it outside in the sun for the two years. I recently just started parking in garage so I will see if that makes a difference.

I have LeafSpy Pro and record data on more than half of my trips, so I have a diary over the years. One year ago I was at 95.6% SOH. I also posted my one year report here.

Looking back at battery temperatures I rarely see it above the high range of 75-85 degrees. It is typically in 60's or 70's and sometimes hits 50's when outside nightly temperature hits 40.

I would like to hear reports on other 2016-2017 model year Leaf with 40 kWh batteries. Is the degradation of 5% per year an outlier?
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 8/2016. New 40 kWh replacement battery installed 9/2020 under warranty.
GaleHawkins
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

5% annual is within normal limits Since Feb 2020 when we got the 40 kWh pack we have added 16K miles on our 2016 Nissan Leaf SL that is now showing 41K miles total and SOH is 94.95% Typically we loose 0.01% SOH daily when the 12 volt battery is connected which is around 3.65% annually.
SOH held at 94.96% for 30 days but today I closed the 12v cutoff switch and drove down 82% SOC to 55% and SOH dropped from 94.96 to 94.95%.
Our car sets outside but in the shade until 3-4 PM. Seldom does SOC go below 30% and 98% of time i charge to 100%. Fully charged our mV reading drops to the 2mV-4mV range showing good ability to discharge and recharge or flexibility. High battery temperature noted this summer 107F. Air temperature this summer hit 98-103F for about 30 days.
awhile
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:41 am
Delivery Date: 01 Nov 2018
Location: San Diego

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

GaleHawkins wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:36 pm 5% annual is within normal limits Since Feb 2020 when we got the 40 kWh pack we have added 16K miles on our 2016 Nissan Leaf SL that is now showing 41K miles total and SOH is 94.95% Typically we loose 0.01% SOH daily when the 12 volt battery is connected which is around 3.65% annually.
SOH held at 94.96% for 30 days but today I closed the 12v cutoff switch and drove down 82% SOC to 55% and SOH dropped from 94.96 to 94.95%.
Our car sets outside but in the shade until 3-4 PM. Seldom does SOC go below 30% and 98% of time i charge to 100%. Fully charged our mV reading drops to the 2mV-4mV range showing good ability to discharge and recharge or flexibility. High battery temperature noted this summer 107F. Air temperature this summer hit 98-103F for about 30 days.
So is the connection to 12 volt battery the most significant contributor to battery SOH degradation/decay? More than time spent at "high temperature + fully charged"
2016 Leaf SV purchased 10/2018 with 62k miles. Manufactured 10/2015 with first owner at 8/2016. New 40 kWh replacement battery installed 9/2020 under warranty.
GaleHawkins
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

awhile wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:56 pm
GaleHawkins wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:36 pm 5% annual is within normal limits Since Feb 2020 when we got the 40 kWh pack we have added 16K miles on our 2016 Nissan Leaf SL that is now showing 41K miles total and SOH is 94.95% Typically we loose 0.01% SOH daily when the 12 volt battery is connected which is around 3.65% annually.
SOH held at 94.96% for 30 days but today I closed the 12v cutoff switch and drove down 82% SOC to 55% and SOH dropped from 94.96 to 94.95%.
Our car sets outside but in the shade until 3-4 PM. Seldom does SOC go below 30% and 98% of time i charge to 100%. Fully charged our mV reading drops to the 2mV-4mV range showing good ability to discharge and recharge or flexibility. High battery temperature noted this summer 107F. Air temperature this summer hit 98-103F for about 30 days.
So is the connection to 12 volt battery the most significant contributor to battery SOH degradation/decay? More than time spent at "high temperature + fully charged"
I am still racking my brain on the WHY.

Someone mentioned that provides a path to ground for the traction battery.

After it got totaled we had it in our shop working with it for about 18 months this was during COVID-19 and everything else.

For safety reasons especially with an EV you do not want the 12v battery connected while it's sitting inside your shop that reduces fire risk.

Every time that I went out to mess with the car I would run Leaf spy Pro and I was noticing there was no battery degradation from the last time where it been a day or a month. The times that I forgot to disconnect the battery cable and I came back there would be degradation of about 0.01% per day. In 18 months SOH dropped from 96.08 to like 95.72% which was like the number of days that it was at other shops that I farmed it out to for body and airbag work.

I drove the Leaf the first time in a month yesterday to go to town to get some diesel fuel for the tractor and I plan to drive it tomorrow. We recently picked up a 2015 Prius C and I have been playing with it and trying to figure it out and so I've just left the Leaf parked with the battery disconnected because I actually put a blade cutoff switch on the negative post cable.

Hopefully someone else with Leaf spy Pro and a Leaf that gets parked for a few days at a time can see if they can duplicate the results that Leaf Spy Pro is reporting in our case.

I have always wondered why Nissan had such a bad issue in some cars with degradation and maybe this is a factor? If one had the schematic and could sit down and work through a possible discharge maybe they could come up with an answer. It would seem that Nissan knows this fact or should.

As a side note I also discovered that the car would not move out of the intersection and I have figured out that a relay is held open until the 12 volt battery discharges so that and that would be a safety feature. The 12 volt battery was dead when I went back to the tow yard and so I removed it and fully charged it and then brought it back and put it on the car and the car moved just fine and I actually drove the car around and we loaded it on our tilt trailer.
Last edited by GaleHawkins on Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 19281
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

So is the connection to 12 volt battery the most significant contributor to battery SOH degradation/decay? More than time spent at "high temperature + fully charged"
Gods, no! Gale has it in his head that stopping the BMS from updating degradation information actually halts the degradation. He has not provided an explanation for how that would work, exactly. He is going by empirical observation, but isn't drawing the same conclusion as everyone else. Heat and high SOC (especially when hot) remain the top factors in degradation.

Gale slipped in ahead of me.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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