LMF5000
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:19 am
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2017

Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

Found this leaf locally for €11k (for reference, a brand new leaf is currently €39k locally but gets a €12k govt grant for a final cost of €27k). It's a 2017 with the full spec (locally called Tekna, with 360° cameras, and heated seats).

Owner found themselves in a situation where they didn't need to use the car and left it parked in a garage for a year without it being started, moved or charged. The dust and leaves, general condition, light rust on the brake disks etc. all attest to that. The 12V battery was killed over this period and replaced with a new 12V battery by the current owners before we came for a viewing.

The leafspy screenshot is how we found it on the viewing. The car hasn't been driven since the insurance was allowed to lapse, so it's safe to assume that's how it was stored. Cell voltages hovering around the sweet spot of 3.92V. The SoH is very low (70%) for a car with only 17,000km. I suspect it's just the BMS being pessimistic due to the year of storage and I hope a few full charge/discharge cycles will restore the "true" SoH value. I'm a little concerned about the one cell in particular that's 40mV lower than the rest of the pack.

Physically speaking it needs a good cleaning but everything I tested (including air conditioner) seems to work and suspension strut tops have surprisingly little rust. Brake fluid and coolant look to be in good clean condition. Tyres have lots of tread left.

I've attached leafspy screenshot below (VIN removed for privacy) -Image
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knightmb
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

SOH won't go up much I image if you do exercise the battery with consistent driving. It's showing about 20 kWh of capacity, so subtracting 0.5 for shutdown, you have about 19.5 kWh to work with at full charge. High speed driving at 4 m/kWh will get about 4 x 19.5 = 78 miles (125 km) under perfect driving conditions, no climate control. Expect less when using climate control in very cold or hot conditions, high hills, high winds, etc.
I think the 30 kWh battery packs need a BMS firmware update too; to fix calibration issues, so what it shows might not even be correct, it could be a lot better.
I would investigate it's recall history too, see if it has that BMS update.
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2018 Leaf SL - (Manufacture Date February 2018)
2013 Leaf SV - (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles LeafSpy-Data)
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SageBrush
Posts: 7516
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

LMF5000 wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:17 am I suspect it's just the BMS being pessimistic due to the year of storage and I hope a few full charge/discharge cycles will restore the "true" SoH value. I'm a little concerned about the one cell in particular that's 40mV lower than the rest of the pack.
If the Nissan s/w update has already been applied and enough time/driving has elapsed for calibration to occur, believe the SOH
The weak cell is definitely a problem, particularly given Nissan's stonewalling when it comes to fixing this defect.

So it comes down to this: you will probably have crappy range and undesirable pack behavior at low SoC until (and if) the warranty kicks in to replace the pack.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal @ 90% SOH
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
SOL0 7/2022 @ 83% SOH
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Stanton
Posts: 2719
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

I wouldn't buy any 30kWh battery pack--especially one that's already exhibiting a weak cell at that low mileage.
But that's just me.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/OVMS
12v LiFePO4 battery
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/84k miles
Flyct
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:04 am
Delivery Date: 08 Dec 2020
Leaf Number: 310762
Location: Bradenton, Florida, US

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

Stanton wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:19 am I wouldn't buy any 30kWh battery pack--especially one that's already exhibiting a weak cell at that low mileage.
But that's just me.
^^^^. What he said. 100% agree.
2023 Leaf SV Plus delivered 10/22/22 (214 mile published range)
2020 Leaf SL Plus (224 mile range) Traded in
2019 Leaf SL Plus. Totaled 11/20 (224 mile range)
2018 SV Traded for 2018 SL Plus )150 mile range)
2015 SL Traded for 2018 SV (80 Mile Range)
LMF5000
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:19 am
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2017

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

So, I currently own a 2022 leaf with 40kWh battery, and my wife owns a 2016 with 24kWh battery.

The used leaf in this post is one that my dad is considering buying. I'm kind of the friendly go-to leaf advice person in the family but this one had me on the fence. Are the 30kWh batteries really that bad?
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Stanton
Posts: 2719
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

LMF5000 wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:57 am The used leaf in this post is one that my dad is considering buying. I'm kind of the friendly go-to leaf advice person in the family but this one had me on the fence. Are the 30kWh batteries really that bad?
Yes.
I would actually take your 24 kWh (lizard) Leaf over a 30 kWh, but probably not an older (non-lizard) Leaf--unless I knew I was going to replace the battery pack (like I did).
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/OVMS
12v LiFePO4 battery
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/84k miles
SageBrush
Posts: 7516
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

Some 30 kWh packs are OK
Some 30 kWh packs are bad

Some 30 kWh packs are a good gamble in terms of warranty repair/replacement
Some 30 kWh packs are a poor gamble in terms of warranty repair/replacement

The LEAF your father is considering falls into the bad pack, poor gamble lot.
Last edited by SageBrush on Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal @ 90% SOH
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
SOL0 7/2022 @ 83% SOH
User avatar
knightmb
Posts: 1713
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: Should I buy this leaf (leafspy screenshot included)

LMF5000 wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:57 am So, I currently own a 2022 leaf with 40kWh battery, and my wife owns a 2016 with 24kWh battery.

The used leaf in this post is one that my dad is considering buying. I'm kind of the friendly go-to leaf advice person in the family but this one had me on the fence. Are the 30kWh batteries really that bad?
Yes, for some reason, a lot (but not all) of the 30 kWh battery packs were as bad as the very first battery packs on the 2011-2012 models. Some have been able to exploit that warranty loop-hole to get a 40 kWh installed on them as a replacement, but the Leaf must have the BMS update already and lost a lot of bars within the mileage warranty to qualify. Then you must have a good dealership that has a Leaf tech or just someone really knowledgeable in this to replace the whole pack properly under warranty.
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2018 Leaf SL - (Manufacture Date February 2018)
2013 Leaf SV - (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles LeafSpy-Data)
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