voltamps
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:13 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2020

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

Triggerhappy007 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:06 am That's going to be crazy to keep track of unless the government makes some kind of database of VIN numbers.
cwerdna wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:44 pm Gotta love the misreporting by CNBC I heard last night.
Interesting reading that. Many articles appearing now attempting to clarify.

Bottom line, the IRS will have to set up a website where you can run a VIN, and maybe a make+model+year, with production date maybe?, to check if a vehicle qualifies. They might even share the current NHTSA website database where they now take a VIN and tell you recalls, now adding the EV credit thumbs up/down and $ amount you get in a tax credit.

If you google the words:
cars eligible for the $7,500 ev tax credit
A bunch of articles pop up. Too much to read, we'll wait for IRS guides.

At first I thought the Mustang Mach E won't qualify, assembled in Mexico, but the the assembly requirement is not the U.S. alone, it's "North America", Canada, U.S., Mexico....

Edit: now I see the Feds moving toward a database system: https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0923
2022 Leaf SV+
2020 Leaf SV - sold
2022 Maverick Hybrid
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)
& Some really junky gasoline vehicles, not green, except for a Ford C-Max Hybrid, nice one.
cwerdna
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

EV tax credit consequence: Plug-in vehicle lease prices are soaring
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... re-soaring

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
coulomb
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:08 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 200445
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

cwerdna wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:35 pm Plug-in vehicle lease prices are soaring
As a consequence of the Inflation Reduction Act. Huh.
2012 Leaf with new battery May 2019. New to me June 2019.
cwerdna
Posts: 13231
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

Indeed, since numerous vehicles are disqualified and also numerous folks are disqualified (raises hand).

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
goldbrick
Posts: 1929
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

I'm feeling especially dense today :| Could someone explain to me why lease prices jumped up due to this? Toyota has exceeded 200k EV's so the existing rebate was set to be phased out for them anyway. Ditto for Tesla I guess. I'm sure it's simple but I can't understand why this makes such a difference. Are they thinking the demand will go up?
cwerdna
Posts: 13231
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

goldbrick wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:35 pm I'm feeling especially dense today :| Could someone explain to me why lease prices jumped up due to this? Toyota has exceeded 200k EV's so the existing rebate was set to be phased out for them anyway. Ditto for Tesla I guess. I'm sure it's simple but I can't understand why this makes such a difference. Are they thinking the demand will go up?
Toyota phaseout (where it gets cut to 1/2, 1/4 then 0) wasn't going to start until 10/1/2022 w/it first being half: https://web.archive.org/web/20220726050 ... xevb.shtml but given some of the below, if you didn't already have a binding contract to purchase before Biden signed or took delivery before then, you are subjected to new rules, so suddenly all Toyota became ineligible because none of their EVs/PHEVs are assembled in North America.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/07/senate-i ... bill-ever/ (search it for signs)
https://electrek.co/2022/08/13/if-you-w ... x-credits/ - search for Toyota
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... rican-made

Tax credit has been 0 on Teslas for awhile now and AFAIK, they weren't passing it along in the form of a cheaper lease even when their tax credit was above 0.

In the past, if you leased, the automaker/its leasing company received the tax credit. They could choose to pass along 0 to the entire tax credit to the lessee in the form of a cheaper lease. When I leased my 1st Leaf, NMAC passed along all $7500 + a bit more. So, it looked likea a $7500 down payment was made on my behalf.

For the '22 Niro EV I'm leasing, Kia Financial also passed that along + a bunch more. It looked like about $11K was already paid for me the day I picked up my car.

HyunKia have also hit 0 because their BEVs and PHEVs aren't assembled in the US. Imagine if my total cost of lease went up by $7500?

This has affected a ton of other makes and models.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml says:
If you purchase and take possession of a qualifying electric vehicle after August 16, 2022 and before January 1, 2023, final assembly of the vehicle had to be completed in North America, otherwise the same rules in effect prior to the enactment of the Inflation Reduction Act apply (including those involving the manufacturing caps on vehicles sold).

The Department of Energy has provided a list of Model Year 2022 and early Model Year 2023 electric vehicles that may meet the final assembly requirement. Because some models are built in multiple locations, there may be vehicles on the list that do not meet the final assembly requirement in all circumstances.
The list is at https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/inflation-reduction-act. Notice TONS of PHEVs and EVs are missing from it? https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... in-hybrids may help.

Basically, if you didn't already have a binding purchase agreement or take delivery prior to Aug 16 (which, the IRS decided to put up on Aug 16, the day Biden signed: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/ ... ection-30d), the new rules apply (e.g. where assembled, income cap, etc.)

I haven't kept up with most of this either since I'm not in the market, it's been messy and I'm disqualified from the purchase side anyway due to income caps. Not sure how leases (for those above income cap) are handled for vehicles that otherwise qualify.

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
voltamps
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:13 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2020

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

I hear Japan & S. Korea are ticked about this law giving rebates to Mexico & Canada instead of their EVs! Other EU countries as well not happy. I kind of agree. Why does Mex and Can get favored status, leaving out those loyal allies with stable democratic governments?

Interesting, complicated new law. I'm just glad the "Inflation Reduction Act" will wipe out inflation forthwith pronto ! We're saved, and they named it accordingly. :shock: :mrgreen:

"The government has until the end of the year to develop guidance on the battery requirements."
All the battery parts & mineral sourcing stuff will add some complexity.

It all really just comes down to entering a VIN or make+model+year+battery_utilized into a government overLord website & getting blessed or not.
2022 Leaf SV+
2020 Leaf SV - sold
2022 Maverick Hybrid
2016 Ford Focus Electric (traded in at 34k miles, 5 years)
& Some really junky gasoline vehicles, not green, except for a Ford C-Max Hybrid, nice one.
goldbrick
Posts: 1929
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

Thanks cwerdna. I guess this is the part I missed:
cwerdna wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:16 pm In the past, if you leased, the automaker/its leasing company received the tax credit.
I scanned the linked article and saw Tesla mentioned and that threw me off. I just re-read it a bit more carefully and Tesla was mainly discussed in comparison to the other brands. At first I thought that Tesla lease prices were also jumping up (and they might...) and that made no sense but I don't think the article said anything about that. It was just a mis-reading on my part.
cwerdna
Posts: 13231
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: $7,500 Fed Tax Credit CHANGES in 2023 BIG TIME

Hope this isn't a repost.

IRS posted this FAQ on 12/9/22: https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/frequently ... les-credit.

I haven't read most of it due to lack of time and since I won't qualify anyway.

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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