evnow
Well-known member
Nissan won't say anything about MY2012, until they are available for ordering. They won't want anyone to skip 2011 to wait for 2012.stanley said:
The Competition: 6.6kW Charging
- Thread starter Ingineer
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A few months ago on an NPR radio show Mark Perry said Nissan would retrofit 2011 cars with the 6.6 if it appeared to be the appropriate thing to do. Sometimes it takes large corporations to long to make a decision that is obvious. Too much bureaucracy and too much influence by financial execs can be harmful . Nissan is talking about wanting to own the EV market. the cost of going to 6.6 is small compared to the millions Nissan marketing will spend fighting off Ford. Eliminating this issue is big for Nissan. If they do, they can trump Ford in the charging area with the Leafs fast charger. Something that Ford does not have. It will also make a big difference to all of us with respect to opportunity charging.
KeiJidosha
Well-known member
I'd heard Nissan already has a 6.6kW supplier. My guess is they figured out how much else needs to change to use 6.6 charger (wire gauge, connectors, firmware, software, Carwings, data loggers, aggregators, spec sheets, service training, manufacturing), so they have to wait for 2012. And 2011 LEAF won't be updateable.stanley said:
garygid
Well-known member
I thought I read some months ago about Nissan saying they already had a new vendor for a "6.6 kW" internal charger, and it was even LESS expensive, and smaller, than the present "3.3 kW" charger.
Did I misread or misunderstand?
Did I misread or misunderstand?
Randy
Well-known member
Yes, Gary. Mark Perry told LeafMe, SDBonez, and myself at the December "first LEAF event" in San Diego that they are indeed planning to offer a 6.6kw upgrade to 2011 LEAF owners. I think he said it would take a couple of years. He did say that they have sourced the charger, and it is indeed smaller.
He also said that they have been able to place the 6.6 charger closer to the front of the car and that would eliminate the "hump" between the trunk and folded rear seats.
For me, I wouldn't mind if the 6.6 retrofit was just a drop-in unit. Even if it took less space under the "Hump", I think it's more trouble to re-wire the car, etc. Wouldn't the least cost solution just replace what is currently there?
Of course, he had no idea about what the price would be...But three of us asked him about the 6.6 and heard his responses....
He also said that they have been able to place the 6.6 charger closer to the front of the car and that would eliminate the "hump" between the trunk and folded rear seats.
For me, I wouldn't mind if the 6.6 retrofit was just a drop-in unit. Even if it took less space under the "Hump", I think it's more trouble to re-wire the car, etc. Wouldn't the least cost solution just replace what is currently there?
Of course, he had no idea about what the price would be...But three of us asked him about the 6.6 and heard his responses....
muus
Well-known member
That would make sooo much sense. I can't understand why they put the charger back there in the first place. I'm sure if they had tried harder they could have found sufficient space in the front to put the charger. The more space they can free up in the back the better. I hope they can make the change for the 2012 model.
palmermd
Well-known member
garygid said:
No, but I had that same daydream as well.
EVDRIVER
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I would bet confidently they had 6.6 a long time ago and just decided to use the smaller one for cost and home load issues. Don't expect an affordable upgrade as it is highly unlikely for under $3K. It's unlikely the car would need to be changed for a new charger but it just does not makes economic sense as a OEM upgrade since very few would pay the high cost. If they had not put so much large packaging on their drive components to make them look like a motor they could easily have fit the charger in the front, the hump in the back could have been avoided. If you compare Nissan's packaging of components is is very large and I would expect that to change as well as the "patch fix" heater. I believe many decisions were based on easy of use and speed/cost and are not the optimal choices, the heater being a perfect example.
TomT
Well-known member
Again, why I choose to lease! By the time 2014 or 2015 roils around, I suspect that there will have been enough changes to the Leaf that resale value of the first year models will have taken a significant hit. Besides, by then, I'll likely want a number of the new features and capabilities that will be available from a number of manufacturers and want to move on regardless.
EVDRIVER said:
leafme
Well-known member
KeiJidosha said:
Mark Perry told me in December that the 2011 LEAF will be upgradable to the "6.6" kw charger for a fee.
Malcolm
TomT
Well-known member
If it is more than 3 figures, it will likely be a non-starter... However, I'm still not convinced that this is even technically possible, regardless.
leafme said:
Would you like to expand on that point? The battery itself is more than capable of handling that charge rate, as are most of the system in the vehicle. The on-board charger is a standalone unit, so I see no reason why it could not be replaced?mogur said:
=Smidge=
smkettner
Well-known member
Home load issues???? If that was true AV would be installing 16a evse not 30a evse.EVDRIVER said:
muus
Well-known member
Nothing's impossible but it's sorta like adding A/C to a car that doesn't have one, it's possible but I never heard of it being done. In the case of the charger, you probably would have to upgrade the wiring going from the J plug in the front to the charger in the back and maybe the wire going from the charger to the pack. You're doubling the current so unless they over-sized the wiring (unlikely) you'd have to change it all. The charger itself shouldn't be all that expensive but who knows how many man hours it would take.
I personally don't see it happening (but then what do I know :roll: ). I'm just hopping they will upgrade to the 6.6kW unit for the 2012 model and move the charger to the front. Not only would they save money with the new unit (it's cheaper) they would save money on the wiring (shorter).
Please Nissan if you are reading this, move the charger to the front (where it should have been in the first place) and get rid of the charger hump! It's a Win-Win-Win situation. (save $$$ - simpler install - more trunk space)
smkettner
Well-known member
Exactly my point. Why not have 3.3Kw 16a evse at home when 8+ hours of charging is fine and include the 6.6 charger for improved opportunity charging.EVDRIVER said:
This is the best of both IMO.
leafme
Well-known member
smkettner said:
This seems funny to me. A 120v, 15a branch circuit is capable of a continuous load not to exceed 12a. A 120v, 20a branch circuit is capable of a continuous load not to exceed 16a. Assuming a power factor of 0.985 and a charge efficiency of 0.846 pu (84.6%) for either system, the Ford would need to draw 19.2a at 120v to meet their 12 hr spec (violating the NEC) or at 16a it will take 14.4 hrs not the 12 they are claiming. One difference sure exists. The LEAF L1 EVSE can use a 120v, 15a or 20a branch circuit with either a 15a or 20a receptacle whereas the Ford can only use a 20a branch circuit with a 20a receptacle (the 20a ford EVSE plug will not fit a 15a receptacle). Not a big deal but a definite requirement. I'm inclined to believe Ford is blowing 2.4 hrs of smoke somewhere because they cannot get a safety listing for their EVSE at greater than 16a on a 120v branch circuit. To meet their spec the charge efficiency would have to be greater then 1.01 pu (101%). Can't do that in this world.
Malcolm
AndyH
Well-known member
The charger is only 1/2 of the hump - the brake controller and it's back-up battery is on the other 1/2.muus said:
