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mwalsh
Posts: 9644
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:28 pm

jason98 wrote:Confused. What does it exactly explains? If I had 90% of capacity then I had plenty of capacity for regen.
Yes, at 100% charge you don't get any regen at all. After about 1.5 miles you start to see some. But you don't get significant regen until you've dropped down below that first bar on the gauge (which is probably like 92% - there is a chart on here someplace).
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 84,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14223
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:48 pm

float charge explains it. your car was actively charging and when u first unplug it, the estimated range is bloated. how many bars did you have on the "gas" gauge? from your drive and charge left, i am guessing you had 8-9 bars which is what i see all the time. i have an 18.2 mile RT commute and rarely if ever charge sunday night for commute mon morning.

so i get into car having driven 18.2 miles the previous day from an SOC that was probably 85-90%. i get in and range is around 60-65 miles right?

ok, well one Monday, my SO thought it was her turn to drive Leaf and it was cold, so she plugged it in, and started the pre heat. well, i told her i had not charged from the previous day and she will not take it unless its full. so she took Prius instead. well, this is when car plugged in for like 30-40 minutes. i jump in, range is like 80 miles and i am shocked since pre heat will prevent any range increase on 120 charging.

but i start to drive and range drops pretty slowly for first 2-3 miles, then drops like a rock. by the time i get to work, my range is around 55 miles where it should have been.

so i drove 9 miles and lost 25 miles of range, but had parked it the night before and only had "around" 60 something. really wish i had paid attention to range i had left but cant say that i even gave it a 2nd look. but i have done this same pattern over and over and always had about the same give or take a few
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jason98
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 2:29 pm

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:04 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:how many bars did you have on the "gas" gauge? from your drive and charge left, i am guessing you had 8-9 bars which is what i see all the time.
I had all lighted up but 2 top.
DaveinOlyWA wrote: but i start to drive and range drops pretty slowly for first 2-3 miles, then drops like a rock. by the time i get to work, my range is around 55 miles where it should have been.
Exactly what I experienced. I had preheat too and charging it manually without timer.

So, how do I actually measure the REAL range?
Does 80% charge timer option do a precise job?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14223
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:17 pm

jason98 wrote:
So, how do I actually measure the REAL range?
Does 80% charge timer option do a precise job?
LOL!! u dont. i have an advantage in that i use 120 volt charging so i can accurately track how much charge i am putting in.

the only real way is to pay attention to where u go and what info you get back from your Leaf.

also, another thing a bit off topic but can be used to judge your distance.

always reset your trip meters and your mpk on the efficiency menu so you can track your mpk performance that day and keep in mind, your usable batt capacity is between 20-21 kwh. i can pretty much guarantee that it is not 24

**edit** an afterthought; i was really really anal about watching the estimated range but that only lasted about 2 weeks. i began to realize that what i was looking at was realistically nonsense. this was the Car predicting the future and it could predict it just as well as i could and if you knew about my stock performance over the past 2 years you would know i really SUCK at it!!

i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.

now the fact that you went from 4.1 to 4.2 from the main gauge means your real performance is probably between 4.5 and 5.0. i would say higher but the # of stops you have scares me and i am willing to bet i am within .1 to .2 of that.

so your realistic range is probably 72 to 80 miles. so driving 16.6 miles and having what u have left is right about where you should be.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jason98
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 2:29 pm

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:42 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote: LOL!! u dont.
Well, at least I can charge to max, reset the trip stats, and then drive around neighborhood until it halts.

kmp647
Posts: 1136
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Nov 2011
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:52 pm

Is the car somehow using cabin temp in it's range calc?

Or is the pre heat artificially increasing the estimated range , until the pack cools once on your way for a bit.?
2012 SL Leaf
order 07/28/2011
took delivery 11/11/11
47,000 miles 10 bars 211 gids
Turned back into Nissan 12/31/14 @ 50,000 miles
BMW i3 rex 24 month lease
2017 BMW X540e phev
Tesla model 3 reservation

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14223
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:16 pm

kmp647 wrote:Is the car somehow using cabin temp in it's range calc?

Or is the pre heat artificially increasing the estimated range , until the pack cools once on your way for a bit.?
No. The pack is not in the cabin.

Also I think we should not over emphasize the effects of temperatures on pack performance because it is really not much of a factor.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AndyH
Posts: 6388
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:43 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:48 am

This is making me crazy and I don't have the car yet. :D

We've got three things happening in parallel here and it's going to take Leafers some time to really grok what's happening.

- First, we have energy in the battery. If we charge to 100% we've got 24kWh of stored energy. This is hard fact.
- Next, we have the driver and his/her habits. A driver transitioning to a Leaf from a high-power vehicle or a driver that's used to driving 20mph over the limit and zig-zagging through traffic does not realize how much energy they use. Rude awakening time! This is erratic, fuzzy, and hard to predict.
- Third, we have the computer in that car that's trying to be helpful and supportive but it's being misunderstood by most. It's trying to take a hard fact, merge it with erratic/fuzzy/hard to predict, and display a number that too many of us want to use as a fact in a court of law. :lol: When it displays 90 miles range, it's saying "hey - based on the energy in the 'tank' and how you drove for the past (30 seconds, minute, 3 minutes), if you keep driving like that then you'll be able to go this far on a flat road with no wind." Throw in a hill, wind, or a lead foot and all bets are off.

The same way we don't automatically trust any nav system's "turn right now" and turn into the side of a building, we should not bet our life on the range meter. What do we know for sure? What can we trust? We know if we filled the 'tank' the night before, and we know that the 'fuel gauge' shows us how much energy we have in the tank. When we learn the car we'll know how far we can travel based on where and how we drive.

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abasile
Posts: 1922
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:02 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.
Couldn't you estimate your remaining range based on the "bars" remaining (i.e., the "gas gauge")? In other words, if you know that you typically get about 6 miles per bar, then you should have pretty good idea of how far you can drive, independent of the whims of Nissan's range calculation algorithm. I'm thinking this should be no different than getting a feel for the gas gauge on a typical ICE car. Granted, the reported SOC might not be totally precise, but I'm thinking it shouldn't be all *that* far off.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

sproqitman
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:04 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0196
Location: Bellevue, WA

Re: So, owners what range are you getting ?

Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:17 am

abasile wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:i found that the only real way to know how far you had left was to know how much you had used. if charging to 80% u can figure that you have 16 kwh to use before hitting turtle. now if u r averaging 4 mpk that is 64 miles and i can guarantee that i am within 2-3 miles.
Couldn't you estimate your remaining range based on the "bars" remaining (i.e., the "gas gauge")? In other words, if you know that you typically get about 6 miles per bar, then you should have pretty good idea of how far you can drive, independent of the whims of Nissan's range calculation algorithm. I'm thinking this should be no different than getting a feel for the gas gauge on a typical ICE car. Granted, the reported SOC might not be totally precise, but I'm thinking it shouldn't be all *that* far off.
That's what I'm doing, to a certain extent. I live in a hilly area, so I pretty quickly gave up on the range calculation. It seems to be heavily biased to the last 5 miles of driving, which in our case is all uphill. The SOC bars seem to be fairly reliable with respect to remaining charge. The problem is your consumption varies depending on: (1) terrain, (2) speed, and (3) accessory usage (climate control, primarily). So the short answer is that you need to drive the car for a while to get a feel for how fast the SOC bars disappear, based on your local terrain and driving behavior.

Example: Dropping my wife off at her Tuesday meeting burns approx 1 bar getting there and 1.5 bars getting back, if I don't use the freeway, ambient temperature is 40-45 degF, with climate control set to 65 degF. That's pretty consistent, but I expect it will change as it warms up and the heater doesn't run as often. One-way distance is approx 10 miles, BTW.

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