Safe Display of LEAF - Lock out Motion

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garygid said:
Having L1 plugged in, even if unpowered, SHOULD keep the car from being driven away.

However, it is too easy for a "visitor" to unplug the e-nozzle.
I would hope that we can discover a more-sure solution.
I don't think so, Gary - the car detects the presence of the J1772 connector with the signals provided by the EVSE - not because of the physical presence of the connector.
 
I believe that the Proximity detection (nozzle plugged in) is done only with 2 Resistors and one Switch in the e-nozzle (J1772) connector itself, no signal from the EVSE required.

Are you saying that the LEAF does NOT use the Proximity detection to disable the car's motion?
 
You tell me, double-E Double-E -- Under what condition(s) does the car look for the proximity signal - and what's the response if it finds it? You'll find that info in the service manual and J1772 docs that you have in your possession.

Path to the dark side, lazy is, hmmm?
yoda2.gif

:lol:
 
I know what's in J1772.

If you KNOW that the LEAF does NOT "use" the Proximity Detection, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us.

Otherwise, we can easily test, plugging in an un-powered EVSE and check if the LEAF will move. I believe "DarkStar" reported earlier in this thread that the car does NOT move.
 
garygid said:
I know what's in J1772.

If you KNOW that the LEAF does NOT "use" the Proximity Detection, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us.

Otherwise, we can easily test, plugging in an un-powered EVSE and check if the LEAF will move. I believe "DarkStar" reported earlier in this thread that the car does NOT move.
Ok, just to be clear - you want ME to dig thru the manuals to cross-check how the Leaf responds to the existence of the L1/L2 connector even though we both know that you have the same manuals I'll spend my time digging thru? ;)

That's fine. It'll have to wait until later today though.

edit...

References:
J1772-2010 doc: http://wenku.baidu.com/view/10b7d51755270722192ef7b6.html
Leaf Service Manual

From J1772, the EVSE-side connector has three signal paths - the two AC wires, the pilot signal, and the proximity signal. As Gary already mentioned, the proximity signal is powered from the car, not the EVSE. The proximity signal also includes the push-button on the L1/L2 connector.

From the Service Manual, Section C (electric power train), chapter VC (vehicle charging) page VC-10, the car supplies +5V to the proximity function. I cannot find an indication that the +5V is always present.

Service Manual, Section C, chapter EVC (EV Control) page EVC-32: When the driver operates the power switch while depressing the brake pedal, the car activates the systems and goes to the 'READY' state - except when the charge connector is connected.

I haven't yet found when the car sends +5V to the standard charge connector. This is required for the car to detect the presence of inserted charge connector. It may be safe to assume that 5V is present when the car is on or in accessory mode, but if it was my car and my insurance policy, I'd want to know for sure. ;)

I'd certainly use at least two wheel chocks regardless.
 
GroundLoop said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
put the car in the On position by push start twice with foot off brake, remove the key. the car will not move without it.
No doubt the first person to push the Button will turn it Off, though.

ok, the topic is how to insure that someone can access displays but not drive off. cant have everything
 
garygid said:
I believe "DarkStar" reported earlier in this thread that the car does NOT move.
The only way I would have been able to get that car to move at the Drive Electric tour with the J1772 nozzle plugged in (but not on the other end) would have been to get out and push! :D

I can't remember which icon popped up on the dashboard, but it lets you know that it's plugged in. It doesn't matter if the level 1 EVSE is plugged in to the outlet since the car uses the proximity pin for this detection...
 
AndyH said:
garygid said:
Having L1 plugged in, even if unpowered, SHOULD keep the car from being driven away.

However, it is too easy for a "visitor" to unplug the e-nozzle.
I would hope that we can discover a more-sure solution.
I don't think so, Gary - the car detects the presence of the J1772 connector with the signals provided by the EVSE - not because of the physical presence of the connector.

Sorry Andy,
I thought you were saying that you were convinced that an un-powered e-nozzle just being plugged in would NOT stop the car from moving.

Since the Proximity circuit does not go back to the EVSE through the e-hose, and knowing that you are usually right, I thought that you had some "Service Manual" information that indicated that the LEAF did NOT actually USE the Proximity Detection to immobilize the car.

Apparently I misunderstood, Sorry.

I thought that I was not asking you to search for something that you had not already found.
Again, my appologies.
 
garygid said:
Sorry Andy,
I thought you were saying that you were convinced that an un-powered e-nozzle just being plugged in would NOT stop the car from moving.

Since the Proximity circuit does not go back to the EVSE through the e-hose, and knowing that you are usually right, I thought that you had some "Service Manual" information that indicated that the LEAF did NOT actually USE the Proximity Detection to immobilize the car.

Apparently I misunderstood, Sorry.

I thought that I was not asking you to search for something that you had not already found.
Again, my appologies.
No worries, Gary - I was ribbing you for not checking the books. :D

Not trying to say I was convinced it wouldn't work, just trying to figure out if it Would and why. A friend has been beating me with the need to be precise, so wanted to stick with the absolute 'knowns.' ;)

I still can't point to a place in a manual that proves that the car powers the proximity line's 5V all the time, but it would have to provide power even when the car's off so that it can detect the charge plug.

Sorry to doubt your most exhaulted EE-ness. :D
 
I didn't understand why, but the static LEAF at the Drive Electric event (National Harbor, Wash DC) not only had wheel chocks, but the positive terminal of the 12 volt battery was disconnected. The dash displays and the nav / audio were operating; I played with the audio system for a few minutes, playing audio from a USB stick, my Sony Walkman, etc, and the 12 battery was disconnected. If you look at the video made by Nissan LEAF specialist Kate Quigley (who BTW did a great job explaining the car to my tour group), you'l notice, when she's showing the "under the hood" section, that the positive terminal of the battery is covered with red tape and the connector/fuse block is hanging off to the side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATpoC3yJd8
 
tps said:
I didn't understand why, but the static LEAF at the Drive Electric event (National Harbor, Wash DC) not only had wheel chocks, but the positive terminal of the 12 volt battery was disconnected. The dash displays and the nav / audio were operating; I played with the audio system for a few minutes, playing audio from a USB stick, my Sony Walkman, etc, and the 12 battery was disconnected. If you look at the video made by Nissan LEAF specialist Kate Quigley (who BTW did a great job explaining the car to my tour group), you'l notice, when she's showing the "under the hood" section, that the positive terminal of the battery is covered with red tape and the connector/fuse block is hanging off to the side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATpoC3yJd8
Perhaps they were powering the car's electronics from the grid so they wouldn't have to worry about running the car down?
 
No doubt! If the 12V battery is disconnected, the main contactors stay open and the traction battery stays off-line. There's no power left to run the car! That even takes the charger and charge ports off-line. Hmmm...
 
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