Unable to Restart after using AC (was AC causes failure)
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Azrich
Well-known member
Edit and Update
First, the edit: I misunderstood the service manager about needing new lines for the AC that were non-magnetic. These lines were for their AC coolent machine for taking out the coolent and injecting it. So they needed to get non-magnetic hoses so they would not create an electro-static charge. They did not replace the AC hoses in the LEAF.
Update: They took me back to my LEAF in the LEAF repair bay - salesman, general manager, LEAF mechanic, and Service Manager. This repair bay is quite impressive with the red "Zero Emissions" tool box with tools designed to eliminate electro-static discharge and a giant blue hoist that actually lifts the LEAF so the special battery jack can fit under the car.
They had me repeat what I had done yesterday that caused the problem - using my iPhone to turn on the pre-cooling function. It worked fine and the LEAF started correctly. The LEAF mechanic had contacted the LEAF tech line this morning. He found that my AC coolent was under pressure and not over pressure like leafwind's was. He evacuated all the coolent and then refilled it to the recommended level. As he explained this, the general manager told him to do this to every LEAF that arrives until they find out more from Nissan, as a preventive measure. They had two LEAFs delivered today - almost 10 days early.
I was impressed with many things through this repair episode. I felt listened to and cared for. This morning the LEAF mechanic hooked up my vehicle to analyze its systems and he was on the phone with Nissan technicians in California that were being sent all the data at the same time. They were able to analyze it along with the local mechanic. How many car companies do that??
I don't understand all the technology of how this would cause my car to shut down, but the LEAF mechanic did. That is what matters.
Home with my LEAF, plugged in to finish charging up tonight. It's a better evening.
Azrich said:
First, the edit: I misunderstood the service manager about needing new lines for the AC that were non-magnetic. These lines were for their AC coolent machine for taking out the coolent and injecting it. So they needed to get non-magnetic hoses so they would not create an electro-static charge. They did not replace the AC hoses in the LEAF.
Update: They took me back to my LEAF in the LEAF repair bay - salesman, general manager, LEAF mechanic, and Service Manager. This repair bay is quite impressive with the red "Zero Emissions" tool box with tools designed to eliminate electro-static discharge and a giant blue hoist that actually lifts the LEAF so the special battery jack can fit under the car.
They had me repeat what I had done yesterday that caused the problem - using my iPhone to turn on the pre-cooling function. It worked fine and the LEAF started correctly. The LEAF mechanic had contacted the LEAF tech line this morning. He found that my AC coolent was under pressure and not over pressure like leafwind's was. He evacuated all the coolent and then refilled it to the recommended level. As he explained this, the general manager told him to do this to every LEAF that arrives until they find out more from Nissan, as a preventive measure. They had two LEAFs delivered today - almost 10 days early.
I was impressed with many things through this repair episode. I felt listened to and cared for. This morning the LEAF mechanic hooked up my vehicle to analyze its systems and he was on the phone with Nissan technicians in California that were being sent all the data at the same time. They were able to analyze it along with the local mechanic. How many car companies do that??
I don't understand all the technology of how this would cause my car to shut down, but the LEAF mechanic did. That is what matters.
Home with my LEAF, plugged in to finish charging up tonight. It's a better evening.
derkraut
Well-known member
Azrich said:
Well.....it looks as though you received prompt, competent service. That's a good thing.
TomT
Well-known member
I'm glad they took care of you but I have to reiterate that I find this whole scenario absurd regardless. I can not conceive of why anyone would design a control system in a car that would completely disable it in the case of an over or under charge of freon. At the very most, you simply disable the AC system until it is serviced. Disable the entire car? Brain-dead!
P.S. The charge state of any AC system will change with ambient temperature. Does this mean that every Leaf will have to be recharged with the prevailing temperature in mind??? I'm being factious but you get the point... -10 for Nissan on this one!
P.S. The charge state of any AC system will change with ambient temperature. Does this mean that every Leaf will have to be recharged with the prevailing temperature in mind??? I'm being factious but you get the point... -10 for Nissan on this one!
Azrich said:
bowthom
Well-known member
Hello,
I have to agree, no programmer should put A/C problems that high in the code hierarchy. Should be a yellow triangle warning not the red master alarm. Now if the A/C is used to cool the batteries during charging as in the Tesla maybe so but that is not the case with the Leaf. I'm going to read the manual about the A/C maybe there is some info in there that will enlighten us.
I live in Oregon so have not used the A/C except to defrost :lol:
I have to agree, no programmer should put A/C problems that high in the code hierarchy. Should be a yellow triangle warning not the red master alarm. Now if the A/C is used to cool the batteries during charging as in the Tesla maybe so but that is not the case with the Leaf. I'm going to read the manual about the A/C maybe there is some info in there that will enlighten us.
I live in Oregon so have not used the A/C except to defrost :lol:
azdre
Well-known member
We may not know the whole story yet, I was able to reproduce the failure after having the recommended service performed just as it was for AZRich and leafwing. The car is still at the dealers and it's looking to me more of a problem caused somewhere between the remote climate control and the car. They did confirm that the AC had too much R134 per specs. Here's my scenario that I reproduced with the service guys:
90 degrees outside today
Open the iphone app, weird, the climate control is spinning, it shouldn't be.
Go to the CC tab on the app and turn CC off.
Wait a few minutes for the message to be received and processed.
Turn the CC back on.
Failure mode reproduced successfully twice at the dealer after having the recommended levels in the AC.
The original problem yesterday, I started the CC via the website timer for 1:45 pm, went to car at 2:10 and it was in fail mode. I wasn't able to retest that today.
The dealer has been treating me very, very well and I'm probably the perfect person to help them debug this issue as I worked in software quality for years and I'm trying to keep a smile on my face through this process.
I still LOVE the car and want it back.
90 degrees outside today
Open the iphone app, weird, the climate control is spinning, it shouldn't be.
Go to the CC tab on the app and turn CC off.
Wait a few minutes for the message to be received and processed.
Turn the CC back on.
Failure mode reproduced successfully twice at the dealer after having the recommended levels in the AC.
The original problem yesterday, I started the CC via the website timer for 1:45 pm, went to car at 2:10 and it was in fail mode. I wasn't able to retest that today.
The dealer has been treating me very, very well and I'm probably the perfect person to help them debug this issue as I worked in software quality for years and I'm trying to keep a smile on my face through this process.
I still LOVE the car and want it back.
TomT
Well-known member
It's sounding more and more like a significant software bug... I wonder if Nissan can push firmware upgrades via the Telematics... Otherwise, every Leaf may have to come in for an update.
Hmm, I wonder if disconnecting the 12 volt battery and reconnecting it would reset it...
Hmm, I wonder if disconnecting the 12 volt battery and reconnecting it would reset it...
azdre said:
LakeLeaf
Well-known member
mogur said:
Seems like almost a no brainer to build this type of functionality it, doesn't it?
Of course - the security of such a feature .......
TomT
Well-known member
Yes, it does, but there have been a number of other things that I would have thought would be a no-brainer too but apparently Nissan felt otherwise. I'll have to peruse the service manual and see if it sheds any light on it.
LakeLeaf said:
garygid
Well-known member
The much-earlier-mentioned Nav-Maps problem (incomplete and older data) is NOT a Navteq problem, I believe.
If you use Navteq's online "report map errors" function (NAVTEQ Map Reporter) to check THEIR latest maps and you will probably find your "problem" area is OK.
APPARENTLY the company that takes/buys the Navteq map data processes it into their own propritary format, and "prunes" some of the data to reduce the size of this data. They are apparently FAR behind, or some such, not to mention not having all the streets.
Apparently Nissan and Toyota use "similar" suppliers, since they both seem to have similar problems.
I think Google uses Navteq map data, doesn't it?
If you use Navteq's online "report map errors" function (NAVTEQ Map Reporter) to check THEIR latest maps and you will probably find your "problem" area is OK.
APPARENTLY the company that takes/buys the Navteq map data processes it into their own propritary format, and "prunes" some of the data to reduce the size of this data. They are apparently FAR behind, or some such, not to mention not having all the streets.
Apparently Nissan and Toyota use "similar" suppliers, since they both seem to have similar problems.
I think Google uses Navteq map data, doesn't it?
palmermd
Well-known member
Well, today was delivery day for my Leaf. As you can tell from the pictures, I came home with a 2010 Nissan Altima courtesy car. The folks at my Nissan dealership were fantastic. My salesman was great. He showed me all the functions of the car. We started in the trunk and he showed me all the tools and whatnot, including the wrench required to manually release the parking brake in the event of a complete power failure. I did not know that that existed...must have missed it on this forum. Anyhow from there we got into the car, enabled carwings and went throught all the screens and connected my phone with bluetooth and tested it. Very throuough and professional. We put the car into drive, reverse, park, drive and eco, and tested the parking brake, and all was working just fine although we never even moved the car an inch. We were doing all this while we waited for the paperwork to get completed inside and for anohter customer to finish up with their paperwork. I went back inside the building to sign all the papers and everything went very smooth and professional. I would definitely recommend this dealership to anybody. The whole thing probably would have been the fastest transaction I've ever had for a car if it were not for the fact that when I got back to the car to drive away after my salesman put the registration sticker in the windshield the car would not get to "ready". When I got into the car, I put my foot on the brake and pressed the button and the dash lit, but I never got a "ready" green arrow, and the dash blinked that I should push the brake when I press start. Ok, perhaps I did not press hard enough. I tried again...nothing. Perhaps I needed to turn it off first, so I did that and then tried to restart. Same problem. Then I noticed that not only was there an indicator for pushing the brake and the button, there was an error light on the dash. I tried a couple of other options and then gave up and went to find my salesman. I found him and he was shocked I was still at the dealership. I told him the car was dead, and he looked at me in amazement and I handed him the key and we walked out to the car. He went through all the same steps as I did, and then we called the service guy to come over. The service guy was great. He went through the same steps as we did and then started asking questions about what we saw and what we were doing prior to this happening. We looked up in the manual what possible things the light can mean, and then he did a quick inspection of the obvious things. At that point my salesman started working with the service bay to get me a loaner, and I spoke with the service guy. I mentioned this thread about a possible air conditioning link, and he said he would keep that in mind. The car never moved, and obviously has not ever had the AC setup to precool the car, but when we were in the car going over the dash, the a/c was running. It was a bit cold for my taste, but the salesman said he was hot in the car. I don't know if it has anything to do with the car not running, but it is the only thing we did to it.
So for me it was...I got the car at 5pm and it failed me at 5:30pm.
So for me it was...I got the car at 5pm and it failed me at 5:30pm.
davewill
Well-known member
Bummer!!!! This appears to be a much more common problem than I would have guessed. Did we not notice it before strictly because it was winter? It doesn't seem possible.
BTW, how clever of you to score one of those right hand drive Leafs!
BTW, how clever of you to score one of those right hand drive Leafs!
azdre
Well-known member
I'm feeling quite fortunate that I got to spend 8 full days with my LEAF before the failure.
GeekEV
Well-known member
Part of me wants to test mine now, part doesn't... What wold I do? Just crank the A/C real cold and let it run?
LEAFer
Well-known member
So ... the LEAF needs a hot-weather package option :lol:
(Sorry for your troubles ... but was not able to resist ...)
(Sorry for your troubles ... but was not able to resist ...)
azdre
Well-known member
Maybe run the A/C with the car not in full-start mode. Or turn on the AC remotely via the website, and 25 minutes later try to move it. 2 of the times it took about a minute of sitting in the car fiddling with the radio before it failed. For everyone, this has been happening when it's pretty warm outside, so that might be a kicker.
jkyu99
Well-known member
You win. A new world's record.palmermd said:
You do have incredible luck. I have followed you from the Aptera forum where we both suffered through that mess. I have a May due date. Geez, I was worried I might not even get a delivery in May, but I think this is worse. My sympathies.Tech support's usual answer is to unplug the computer and then plug it back in. We need something like that for the Leaf. A master reboot, somewhere under the hood. Something to avoid having to take it to a service department for a re-boot.
palmermd
Well-known member
azdre said:
For me we fully started the car and were just sitting in park. We were in a partially shaded garage and it really was not that warm. We probably sat in the car 15 minutes "playing" with the dashboard while the a/c was running. Carwings was never involved remotely (we setup the carwings account on the touchpanel in the vehicle). In fact, I need to set up my phone so I can "see" what is happening with my car. Is there anything I can see from here with the iphone app?
sdbonez
Well-known member
I debated leaving mine at the dealership tonight for different reasons..more for the fact that with Nissan's delays/rotten delivery information, and my dash still showing week of April 8th, I only just got my Level2 EVProject charger installed today.. i'm staring down at a week before I can use it and Level1 is going to barely suffice...almost decided to leave it in the showroom until my EVSE was hot.
The other issue was more minor. Carwings wouldn't register. got a 'no service'. Tried backing it into the open for a clear GSM signal. no dice and they couldn't fix it. Exactly the same issue Randy had so I'm either needing a firmware update or an account re-do. we'll see.
Sad to hear you got an Altima, Palmer. I think they owe you free 3, 4, and 5yr battery checks
The other issue was more minor. Carwings wouldn't register. got a 'no service'. Tried backing it into the open for a clear GSM signal. no dice and they couldn't fix it. Exactly the same issue Randy had so I'm either needing a firmware update or an account re-do. we'll see.
Sad to hear you got an Altima, Palmer. I think they owe you free 3, 4, and 5yr battery checks
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