Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

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jcesare

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http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57429595-48/toyota-unwraps-tesla-powered-rav4-ev/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ed : Making this the official thread.
 
This is the biggest PR stunt, limited conversions with packs that are hanging below the car, poor efficiency and a likely very high sticker all so Toyota can look like they are doing EVs while artificially boosting Tesla's bottom line, all this from the world's leader in battery pack and traction drive tech acting as though they need to partner with Tesla for help on an EV. Clever marketing and spin and a great way to sever each companies short term needs but a pathetic attempt into the EV market. When is Toyota going to get serious about EVs?
 
EVDRIVER said:
When is Toyota going to get serious about EVs?

You are being too pessimistic.. but the answer is: When they are profitable.. at least its a properly done conversion by Tesla.

Toyota already gets all the greencredits they need with the Prius, the king of the electric cars.. and if they need to buff up their image there is always the $3000 plug-in option for the Prius. This SUV is for the soccermoms that find the Leaf too cheap for their lifestyle.

They are already making a killing a on the Prius, they will boost production as demand increases.

The ground clearance on the RAV4 does not look too bad from this angle:

http://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef0133f60ae7c8970b-popup

from this article:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/11/rav4ev-20101117.html
 
mwalsh said:
Herm said:
Toyota already gets all the greencredits they need with the Prius, the king of the electric cars..

That's a bit of an overstatement, no?

No, you and I know the Prius is not an electric (it is actually) but I bet the majority of people dont know the difference, and they dont care. All those details are only of interest to us geeks.
 
Herm said:
No, you and I know the Prius is not an electric (it is actually) but I bet the majority of people dont know the difference, and they dont care. All those details are only of interest to us geeks.
Actually "most" people know them as hybrids. Not electric.

EVDriver's question stands. He wasn't talking about green cred (a.k.a. green washing).

RAV4 EV as configured (37kwh usable !) will cost nearly $10K above Volt.
 
evnow said:
Actually "most" people know them as hybrids. Not electric.
EVDriver's question stands.

Most people will think Prius when you mention electric.. the answer to EVDRIVERs questions is: When they are profitable.

Then I mentioned that it would not give Toyota any additional green credits.
 
Pushing two tons? and $50 k?, but a DC charge port is too heavy and expensive?

What a load of....

Is there something about Tesla battery technology that limits fast charging?


"When the RAV4 EV reaches its Phase One stage next year, and a limited-production vehicle goes on sale, it will have one key difference versus the Phase Zero prototype we drove in the San Diego area this past week. While the RAV4 EV prototypes have a proprietary charge connector from Tesla Motors, the production version next year will have an industry standard, 220-volt SAE J1772 charge connector.

But there definitely won't be any quick-charging capability.

A quick charger would provide a lot of additional cost and mass, Toyota decided. According to Brown, adding a quick charger to the EV—including its additional data-porting capability, additional cooling hardware, and other safeguards—would bring up to 40 kilograms (88 pounds) of additional weight..."


http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1058130_toyota-no-plans-for-quick-charging-in-rav4-ev
 
Herm said:
Most people will think Prius when you mention electric..
Yes, some do confuse between hybrids & electrics. Typical conversation runs like
me : I got an electric car
J6P : You mean like a hybrid
me : No. 100% electric.
J6P : Wow. How much was it etc etc

the answer to EVDRIVERs questions is: When they are profitable.
What comes first, chicken or the egg ?

More I bet.. how much do you think the battery costs?
Tesla batteries would cost about $20 K. The new format ones they will use in production may be a little costlier. My guess is they will use a smaller battery and settle for a smaller range, if they want to bring down the cost.

What would you buy if they cost the same - Rav4 EV or Model S :lol: :lol:
 
Personally, I would *love* a full EV Rav4. I drive a Rav4 today. Fine car. Properly-done EV priced right, I'm on it.

Can I dream? Lexus RX450ev :) That's pretty much my dream garage right there... ESFlow and RX450ev. Sweet.

I couldn't care less about the DC quickcharge port, since I'm nowhere near Vacaville.
Put a 7kW L2 charger in there, though. With a pack that big, it's mandatory.
 
dissing on Toyota's motives is a bit out of place on a site like this. keep in mind, its not the car we need to worry about, its the support structure. the greatest car in world aint good for sh** if their aint a gas station within a thousand miles.

the more EVs, plug ins, etc we have the more incentive business will have to provide the plugs. as gas prices rise, the pricing for EV convenience and piece of mind will rise as well. after all, what would u pay to insure you get home? i know more than a handful who are now paying north of a Quarter per mile to drive their cars and that is gas cost only.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
dissing on Toyota's motives is a bit out of place on a site like this. keep in mind, its not the car we need to worry about, its the support structure.
Unfortunately Toyota's & Honda's EVs coming next year sound like CARB plays. Just like Mini-E.
 
GroundLoop said:
Personally, I would *love* a full EV Rav4. I drive a Rav4 today. Fine car. Properly-done EV priced right, I'm on it.

Can I dream? Lexus RX450ev :) That's pretty much my dream garage right there... ESFlow and RX450ev. Sweet.

I couldn't care less about the DC quickcharge port, since I'm nowhere near Vacaville.
Put a 7kW L2 charger in there, though. With a pack that big, it's mandatory.

How soon do you think "priced right" and "big" battery pack will coexist in a BEV?

Seems to me, a DC charging network is likely to develop a lot sooner than that happens.

Pity that Toyota seems to be joining with the other manufacturers of only small numbers of ICEV-to BEV conversions, rather than committing to large-scale production, as Nissan has.
 
evnow said:
What would you buy if they cost the same - Rav4 EV or Model S :lol: :lol:

Leaf with the RAV4 pack :) .. nah, not true, that pack has to weigh a ton.. The 2015 Leaf 200 with the new chemistry pack might be interesting.

GMs 16kwh pack is $10k by comparison, as stated by a GM manager.. but that includes the active cooling. How much is Nissan paying for their 27kwh pack?
 
trust me, $5 gas makes a "right price" much easier to obtain. we simply need to remove the range anxiety and that would be pretty easy if their was a charging station at every store, business, parking lot, etc.
 
edatoakrun said:
Pushing two tons? and $50 k?, but a DC charge port is too heavy and expensive?

What a load of....

Is there something about Tesla battery technology that limits fast charging?

88lbs of additional weight?.. that sounds odd, I would assume the Tesla pack is already actively cooled by the AC.. perhaps its not and they would have to do that for fast charging.

The other issues is that the cells Tesla uses (laptop cells) are not usually able to be fastcharged, at most a 1C rate and think that is even too much.. 0.75C perhaps. I'm not too familiar with those cells, maybe they got a special cell from Panasonic that can be fast charged.

I suspect the pack is not actively cooled.
 
Herm said:
No, you and I know the Prius is not an electric (it is actually) but I bet the majority of people dont know the difference, and they dont care. All those details are only of interest to us geeks.

Sorry, but the Prius is just a hybrid as is the Volt, not an electric car...not even close. Please learn the correct terminology and don't insult the true BEVs.
 
i questioned the lack of QC on the RAV 4 EV as well, but only guessing that this 2012 model is short term until they can smooth out the tech wrinkles so guessing a major revamp with QC for 2014 or sooner.

keep in mind, that QC wont be available in many areas of the country for years, maybe even a decade. not all of the country is positioned like we are to adapt EVs readily
 
Herm said:
GMs 16kwh pack is $10k by comparison, as stated by a GM manager.. but that includes the active cooling. How much is Nissan paying for their 27kwh pack?
I think $500/kwh for large formats would be a good assumption. So, the Volt battery costs some $8K and Leaf's $13K.

Tesla's might cost less, since they use laptop batteries.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/635-Project-Better-Place?p=62893&viewfull=1#post62893

Model S is being priced at 57,400 for 160 miles (45kwh) and 67,400 for the 65kwh/230mile. So, $10K marginal cost for 21kwh marginal capacity.
 
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