We need a portable 240v EVSE

garygid said:

The "standard" electric dryer home socket is usually wired to a 30-amp (are newer ones 40-amp?) breaker.

My pre-1980 home has a 30-amp dual breaker for the dryer, so I would probably need to limit the e-fuel rate to 24 amps (80% of 30, and not let the Leaf "suck" the full 30 amps) if I use that socket.

When the Leaf gets the 6.6 kW (wants 30 amps, could take up to 32 from a 40-amp breaker) charger, if the Level 2 EVSE indicates that only 25 are available, will the LEAF's internal charger "back off" to 25 amps, or "drop back" to 15 amps?

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Why don't you call Nissan, tell them you have the portable Tesla Charger, and could they please recommend someone to splice a J-1772 connector on it? I don't think the Tesla would be eligible for the federal tax credit though.

mwalsh said:

I also think the UK is fairly uncommon in this respect, because I don't remember having to switch sockets on in other areas of Europe/Scandinavia where I've traveled.

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I don't remember any plugs in India without a switch ...

evnow said:

mwalsh said:

I also think the UK is fairly uncommon in this respect, because I don't remember having to switch sockets on in other areas of Europe/Scandinavia where I've traveled.

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I don't remember any plugs in India without a switch ...

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Denmark has switches in the sockets, Sweden and Norway do not.

If I cannot buy a "legal" UL-listed plug-in EVSE, I might as well make one.

First, I need to obtain a J1772 cord or connector. I need to get a price for a replacement 120v EVSE from Nissan, and a replacement 240v break-away "e-hose" from AV.

Or, just a source for the J1772 connector would be good, a 50-amp version would be preferred.

All the rest I can buy or make fairly easily. If I go to the effort to do a "minimal" design, I will show the details here.

NOTE: It is probably not illegal to make this "experimental interface", but it might be illegal to use it, depending upon your local laws.

And it might be illegal to "sell" it ... but you could accept "donations" for any interested buy--, err, enthusiasts !

Probably illegal to sell it as an "EVSE", but probably legal to sell it as some sort of adapter cord, without UL listing, for experimental laboratory use only.

It might need some "... may or may not function for any intended uses ..." verbage.

Maybe there is a lawyer amoung us who would know, or who could guess.

garygid said:

If I cannot buy a "legal" UL-listed plug-in EVSE, I might as well make one.

First, I need to obtain a J1772 cord or connector. I need to get a price for a replacement 120v EVSE from Nissan, and a replacement 240v break-away "e-hose" from AV.

Or, just a source for the J1772 connector would be good, a 50-amp version would be preferred.

.

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I'm thinking they're already available off the shelf now. They've been SAE & UL approved ... plug, cord and all:

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/06/28/underwriters-laboratories-approves-sae-j1772-charging-plug/

UL may be able to direct you to manufacturers.

This article's "plug end" picture does not match the J1772 drawings, not even close.

yep, the article is a year old.

But I see your point, probably already being mfr'd for the Japanese and U.S. EVSE's charging cords.
probably already being "mass produced" to ship with various mfrs cars (leaf and Volt come to mind) for Fall/Winter 2010 shipment. One is going to come with each EV with J-1772, someone has to make make them...

Presumably the J1772 plug used by AV is only UL listed to 30 amps. If true, not very forward-looking. Perhaps another reason to not buy the AV unit?

@garygid: If you manage to make one or post instructions, I for one would be very interested (for experimental use, of course )

garygid said:

Presumably the J1772 plug used by AV is only UL listed to 30 amps. If true, not very forward-looking. Perhaps another reason to not buy the AV unit?

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That's because the receiver in the vehicle is only rated for 30 amps per UL. Nice of UL to take an 80amp standard and reduce it to 30 amps in the USA.

palmermd said:

That's because the receiver in the vehicle is only rated for 30 amps per UL. Nice of UL to take an 80amp standard and reduce it to 30 amps in the USA.

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30A @ 220V is 6.6kW. In spite of the 80A max rating for the J1772 connectors, I'm not sure the 30A rating for the AV EVSE is really a limiting factor...

Can you please provide a reference to support the apparent 30A UL limit? Thanks!

Andy

Go to http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/cgifind.new/LISEXT/1FRAME/transportsrch.html
In the "Category Selection" use "Electric Vehicle Plugs, Receptacles and Couplers".
Click "Search". Seven Results. The Yazaki result (for example) shows the 30A limit. BMW shows a higher limit (60A), but others for L2 also show 30A.
Also, on the http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/ page (and the Coulomb products page) just about everything is shown with a 30A limit, i.e. conforming to the UL listing.

Everyone who thinks they can future-proof their EVSE is in for a rude surprise.

In spite of standards, things will evolve quickly. My old man always says, "The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."

Just worry about getting the power connections future-proofed. You'll be replacing your EVSE when you get your next EV.

30A (continuous) is close to 32A allowed for a 40Amp connection. So I don't see a problem here.

Yes, may be in 2020 we will all get quick charge stations at home that draw down 200A ... until then I'm fine with 30 amps.

LEAFer said:

Go to http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/cgifind.new/LISEXT/1FRAME/transportsrch.html
In the "Category Selection" use "Electric Vehicle Plugs, Receptacles and Couplers".
Click "Search". Seven Results. The Yazaki result (for example) shows the 30A limit. BMW shows a higher limit (60A), but others for L2 also show 30A.
Also, on the http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/ page (and the Coulomb products page) just about everything is shown with a 30A limit, i.e. conforming to the UL listing.

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Thanks. I've not been able to find any UL entries for the current J1772 products. That suggests that the entries in the database might be for the last generation of J1772 hardware.

I've also not been able to cross-reference the part numbers listed in the UL database to confirm or deny what products have the 30A limit. (For example - the Yazaki part numbers.)

I agree completely that the datasheets from AeroVironment, Coulomb, etc. show 30A for their L2 units. It's clear, though, that the connector themselves have to support up to the 80A continuous rating per J1772. The connectors have to be up to the task even if a particular EVSE manufacturer chooses to build an interface with a lower rating.

Back to the 30A, though -- we're talking about 30A into the car, though, and 30A at 220V is still enough to support both a 3.3kW and 6.6kW on-board charger.

Thanks again,
Andy

AndyH said:

Thanks. I've not been able to find any UL entries for the current J1772 products. That suggests that the entries in the database might be for the last generation of J1772 hardware.

I've also not been able to cross-reference the part numbers listed in the UL database to confirm or deny what products have the 30A limit. (For example - the Yazaki part numbers.)

Thanks again,
Andy

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UL Subject 2594


Note this is not a quote from the subject, but from a vendor meeting the UL standard.
"Level II 208/240V, 30A charging (via the SAE J1772 connector) and Level I 120V, 16A charging via a standard NEMA 5-20 outlet thereby offering the ability to charge almost any EV"

Rog - from the UL:

UL Subject 2594 covers electric vehicle (EV) supply equipment, rated a maximum of 250 V ac, with a frequency of 60 Hz, and intended to provide power to an electric vehicle with an onboard charging unit. Subject 2594 covers electric vehicle supply equipment intended for use where ventilation is not required. The products covered by Subject 2594 include EV Power Outlets, EV cord sets and EV charging stations, Level 1 & 2. EV cord sets may be designated as portable cord sets or stationary cord sets and may be designated for indoor or outdoor use. EV charging stations may be designated as either movable or permanent charging stations and may be designated for indoor or outdoor use. The products covered by Subject 2594 are intended for use in accordance with the National Electrical Code (NEC), ANSI/NFPA 70.

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- I understand that vendors selling current J1772 devices list them as 30A devices
- I understand that there are some devices listed in the UL database
- What I cannot confirm is whether the devices listed in the UL database are current J1772 devices or 'last generation' devices
- Therefore, I can not assume that UL is somehow limiting devices to 30A

I hope that makes sense.

Andy

No sense in making/selling 70A capable EVSEs when all the cars in the near future will only take up to 30A. The electronics required to handle double 70A instead of 30A will greatly increase costs.