Aerovironment EVSE install information

NullPointer said:

I spoke with the AV rep at the Drive Tour in DC yesterday. He indicated that the cash-and-carry price is about $1000 but that they would sell you just the head for "cost" at about $750 if you went with them for the install. He also indicated that in my region (DC metro) the quotes should frequently come in less than the $2200 often quoted in California, since out here panel boxes are usually in the garage closer to where the EVSE would be located, compared to outside panel box locations in California.

I mentioned Leviton to the guy and he started a pitch as to why AV is better, claiming that AV can supply more current (40A breaker instead of 30A), and that their unit looks better. "Would you want that Leviton unit hanging on your wall"?

I got the impression that they are starting to feel some heat.

-Doron

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The standard AV unit retails for $750, that is not cost, every thing the EV rep told you above was wrong or uninformed. The AV EVSE is a poorly made EVSE, if you can I would pass on the unit or see if you can get a used one since people are already selling theirs. If you are charging over night even a modified L1 Nissan EVSE is better quality over the AV unit. In CA the sales of AV units has dropped off and the cancelations on installations is very high, in addition some of the contracted electricians for AV have dropped them and gone to work with other EVSE companies because of the low volume of orders and other AV issues.

I went back today to confirm this with the AV rep, as perhaps I misunderstood him. Unfortunately he was not there today due to a family emergency. I spoke with a Nissan sales engineer who indicated that the cash-any-carry price of the AV unit is $720, and the cost of the unit would be $700 if installing through AV.

I am not interested in the AV unit in any case.

-Doron

Anybody regret using their own electrician? I saw EVGeek's posting about a problem AV unit, but he didn't have a problem with AV replacing the unit under warranty despite using a third-party electrician. My install is pretty standard. Also, does the AV unit come with the parts to do either a hardwired install or a plug-in install? From some of the threads, it looks like both have been done. Thanks!

townsat said:

Anybody regret using their own electrician? I saw EVGeek's posting about a problem AV unit, but he didn't have a problem with AV replacing the unit under warranty despite using a third-party electrician. My install is pretty standard. Also, does the AV unit come with the parts to do either a hardwired install or a plug-in install? From some of the threads, it looks like both have been done. Thanks!

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The AV unit doesn't come with any ancillary parts beyond the wall mounting plate and it's hardware. Your electrical contractor will be providing that stuff no matter which way you go.

I have no regrets with the self-install, but then my unit has worked flawlessly. It was a concern going in though, that I wouldn't be able to test it due to the absence of having a car at the time.

I have no regrets with the self-install, but then my unit has worked flawlessly. It was a concern going in though, that I wouldn't be able to test it due to the absence of having a car at the time.

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Thanks. I can probably wait until I have the car to have the EVSE installed.

Since I may be moving soon, I'd also love to have the unit installed with the plug. Is there a standard NEMA plug that people have used? I understand that the Leviton plug-in units use a plug that's not the standard dryer outlet.

Jason

They use a NEMA 6-series, which one depends on the draw of the EVSE. For my AV EVSE I went with a NEMA 6-50, which is overkill, but I didn't want to have to change my outlet in the future.

The NEMA 6-50 would allow 6.6w charging, I take it. EVGeek, why did you go with a plug rather than hardwiring?

townsat said:

The NEMA 6-50 would allow 6.6w charging, I take it. EVGeek, why did you go with a plug rather than hardwiring?

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Even a 6-30 would allow for 6.6Kw charging. W = V*A, so A = W/V, so 6600w/240v = 27.5A... I wanted to go with a plug just for "upgradeability" in the future with minimal fuss. A NEMA 6-50 (installed with 50A capable wiring of course) should be able to handle just about anything I may need in the not too distant future. However, for maximum safety, you really don't want to use a breaker bigger than is required, so I'm not running a 50A breaker yet. But if the wiring is already set to handle it, a breaker's easy to change if you know how - it takes 5 minutes.

The AV charger is rated at 30A, though they specify a 40A breaker because it's a continuous draw (the NEC calls for a 1.25x buffer on continuous draw circuits). In reality you can get away with a 20A breaker for now because, in it's current incarnation, the LEAF will only draw 3.3Kw, which (using the formula above) works out to 13.75A. After adding the 1.25x buffer the NEC calls for, that's only 17.2A - so a 20A would work. But if you plan on plugging other cars into it, you'd better use the recommended 40A breaker or you may pop it.

Thanks!

Re-posting here since it's more on-topic:

Fabio said:

According to an electrician at AV (I spoke with him over the phone), the unit can be used in both 208 and 240.
The jumper is to be used with a future daughter card they are planning to add to measure consumption etc.
In the current model (according to AV) the jumper is a no-op.
My unit has the jumper cut, is connected to 240, and works flawlessly (better that its brother Blink which it sits next to).

LEAFer said:

And the AV is also not usable (unless you make an easy mod) on 208V, which it turns out is the supply voltage in many public charge station locations and possibly commercial businesses. The manual indicates that a jumper has to be cut during install, depending on whether the supply is 208 or 240. With some skill you could make that "cut" temporary to lend more flexibility to the unit. But I don't know what happens if you "forget" to set it correctly before plugging it in.

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So ... although the installation manual (Chapter 4, "Installation", Page 71) says

14. 208 Volt Configuration
The Charging Dock circuit board must be specifically configured if the nominal utility voltage at the installation site is 208 VAC. To configure the circuit board for 208 VAC, follow this procedure ...

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Per the info Fabio has received, this appears to be for consumption measurement purposes only. This does make some sense ... what did NOT make sense is why cutting a jumper is required for operating between 208/240 ... don't they have auto-ranging for the input ???

However, just because the nominal difference between 208/240 will naturally make a significant consumption measurement difference ... so will an overvolted household at 248V (guess who!) over an extended period of time of usage ... I hope AV has that figured out.


Thanks to Fabio for that info. Oh, and BTW, your jumper is cut inappropriately :lol:

That might be why AV does not measure the power, because measuring the AC voltage would be necessary.

Also, in this model, there is no place to display the power level, or the energy used.

GeekEV said:

Even a 6-30 would allow for 6.6Kw charging. W = V*A, so A = W/V, so 6600w/240v = 27.5A...

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A 6-30 receptacle has to be on a maximum 30A breaker, so with the 125% continuous load requirement, it is good for 24 amps maximum in this application.

Cheers, Wayne

NullPointer said:

I spoke with the AV rep at the Drive Tour in DC yesterday. He indicated that the cash-and-carry price is about $1000 but that they would sell you just the head for "cost" at about $750 if you went with them for the install. He also indicated that in my region (DC metro) the quotes should frequently come in less than the $2200 often quoted in California, since out here panel boxes are usually in the garage closer to where the EVSE would be located, compared to outside panel box locations in California.

I mentioned Leviton to the guy and he started a pitch as to why AV is better, claiming that AV can supply more current (40A breaker instead of 30A), and that their unit looks better. "Would you want that Leviton unit hanging on your wall"?

I got the impression that they are starting to feel some heat.

-Doron

Click to expand...

My CA AV install was over $2200 and the house is fully permitted and prewired. All AV has to do is add three wire nuts.

And BTW I far prefer the look of the Leviton. Leviton can be had at two power levels but current Leaf only needs the lower power level. AV will only sell and install ( at the higher cost) the higher power version equivelent that is completely unneeded for the current Leaf. That means you also pay for a 40a circuit when Leaf only needs a 20a circuit. :evil: And if you do not have a 200a panel your electrician may have to evaluate if an entire panel upgrade is needed. I wonder how much of this could be avoided with a 20a circuit :roll:

smkettner said:

My CA AV install was over $2200 and the house is fully permitted and prewired. All AV has to do is add three wire nuts.

And BTW I far prefer the look of the Leviton. Leviton can be had at two power levels but current Leaf only needs the lower power level. AV will only sell and install ( at the higher cost) the higher power version equivelent that is completely unneeded for the current Leaf. That means you also pay for a 40a circuit when Leaf only needs a 20a circuit. :evil: And if you do not have a 200a panel your electrician may have to evaluate if an entire panel upgrade is needed. I wonder how much of this could be avoided with a 20a circuit :roll:

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It could be that AV went with the higher power EVSE from the beginning in order to be able to support a 6.6kW LEAF charger (if and when that comes) without redesigning the EVSE.

In any case I too prefer the Leviton, and thanks for sharing - it is because of stories like yours that I will avoid AV and their $100 come hither fee. I will be upgrading my 125A panel in any case as I have an old "Burn Baby Burn" Federal Pacific panel.

-Doron

NullPointer said:

It could be that AV went with the higher power EVSE from the beginning in order to be able to support a 6.6kW LEAF charger (if and when that comes) without redesigning the EVSE.

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Yes and AV could have provided an easy solution to people with marginal capacity. Simple update can limit the amps and use 20a circuit to solve some issues on a case by case basis. Instead they make everyone jump to the higher level. Or even take advantage of an otherwise unused existing 30a dryer circuit with just a breaker replacement.

I figure if my next EV, many years from now, needs 40a circuit I can still use my 20a and allow more time to charge or sell it with the car.

I am fine with slow charging at home and if next EV had faster charging just in public areas that would be fine too. AV just presents an unnecessary burden on the consumer.

smkettner said:

Yes and AV could have provided an easy solution to people with marginal capacity. Simple update can limit the amps and use 20a circuit to solve some issues on a case by case basis. Instead they make everyone jump to the higher level.

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I suppose they could have, but it's probably easier for them just to milk their relationship with Nissan and the federal tax credit. I don't think they are doing Nissan any favors.

-Doron

Yesterday UPS dropped off on my doorstep a cash-and-carry EVSE from AeroEnvironment. This morning my electrician installed it. Since I had already put in a Milbank RV panel and wiring when building the home, the total cost (EVSE, shipping, and installation) cost me only $871.07. Not bad, all things considered. Yes, I know: EVSE prices will likely be even lower in the future, but at least I paid a helluva lot less than what others have been paying to date.

With my solar array cranking out kWhs, and my EVSE installed, all I need now is my LEAF. Sometime in 2012, I guess. Sigh.... :roll:

You can click on these photos to view larger versions:

That is a beautiful install. I hope someone figures out how to make a recessed mount EVSE some day.

smkettner said:

That is a beautiful install. I hope someone figures out how to make a recessed mount EVSE some day.

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Thanks! It does look good, thanks to the pre-wiring while building the home.

A recessed EVSE would be nice, especially if the garage is very narrow. That wasn't a concern in my case, plus I really like the way that the rounded sides of AV's unit taper back so that I can wrap the cable around it. As a matter of fact, it also comes with a separate "hose" hook, but I didn't even bother to mount it.

For those interested, I've posted a webpage about... My AV EVSE Installation Saga.