Adapters for Ingineer's L1 to L2 EVSE - NO LONGER AVAILABLE

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I just don't want someone also unfamiliar thinking the wrong adapter may work.
Generally an RV park will have 30 amp and 50 amp sites.

30 amp uses NEMA TT-30R and is 120v 30a service. Usually there is also a regular 20a GFI connector.

50 amp uses NEMA 14-50R and of course is 120/240v service. These usually also have an RV 30a and 20a connectors.

For 240 volt fast charging a person would need a 50 amp site.
 
Not having done it myself, I'm curious about the circumstances. Were you actually RVing, or did you stop there specifically to charge? If the latter, did you have to rent a space for the whole night or were you able to rent by the hour? And (although it may vary widely) what did it run you?

EDIT: Now that I've read your linked thread, most of my questions were answered. How nominal was the nominal charge?
 
In an RV park's typical 30-amp site (TT-30 at 120v) do you typically get just one TT-30 socket, or two?

If two, are they typially on the two different "phases" of 240v split-phase, so that one could actually get 240v from the pair?

Or, are the TT-30 sockets typically GFI protected, so that the "2-socket 240v" scheme would not work?

Thanks, Gary
 
30a RV outlets are not GFI at the pedestal. (never heard of one on a GFI breaker either) Usually one per site although I have seen some in a gang of 2 & 4 where two or four sites share one pedestal. I have never checked if they are on opposite sides of the transformer. Campground owners are not real keen on the type connection you suggest even though it is fairly common in the RV world. Actually what some do is combine the 30a & 20a but I think they are generally on the same feed. An RV can still use the power as most stuff is 120v in an RV. Although this is getting more rare as the 20a GFI puts a stop to this adapter.

I think you really need to look for a 50a site to get the 240v EV power or accept slow 120v charging.

There are also a few campgrounds that use 3-phase power for even distribution so you only get 208 volts on the 14-50R. Again this works fine in an RV where everything is 120v to the neutral. I believe more parks are asking to use 3-phase distribution when built as it is lower cost to install.

552755.jpg

http://tweetys.com/rv50ampcheaterbox.aspx
 
GeekEV said:
Not having done it myself, I'm curious about the circumstances. Were you actually RVing, or did you stop there specifically to charge? If the latter, did you have to rent a space for the whole night or were you able to rent by the hour? And (although it may vary widely) what did it run you?

EDIT: Now that I've read your linked thread, most of my questions were answered. How nominal was the nominal charge?

No, I went there specifically to charge. I don't have an RV and I am alien to the RV world.

This obviously was a new type of request for them. They had no idea what to charge. I had no idea what to offer.

I knew I was only going to use about $0.40 of electricity at most, but since I asked for 50 amp service they were worried I would be drawing 50 amps. Their dump charge was $7, but I thought that was a little high. We settled on $5 for the day. I told them I was drawing 12 amps and would be there 2 - 3 hours.

I was only there about 90 minutes as it turned out.

When I left, they were fascinated by the whole concept. They showed me a drop box where I could pay with a little envelope any time I came back. If I planned to come back often, I'm sure we could set up a monthly rate of some kind.

Connecting electric vehicles could turn out to be a nice sideline for RV parks if this catches on. The 240v mod and the adapter makes it all possible.

If I were towing a vehicle behind my RV, I would REALLY want a Leaf. You could top off the batteries at no extra charge!

I plan another RV park outing in a couple weeks. Perhaps I should start a thread "Charging at RV Parks"
 
I think it would be great to start that thread. Until the infrastructure gets up, RV park charging seems like a really viable option.
 
AmarilloLeaf said:
Perhaps I should start a thread "Charging at RV Parks"


I think that would be an awesome idea.

I also think we could get a grass roots deal going where we inform RV parks in our area about what we're looking for and suggest how they might be able to work with EV'ers us to create a new revenue stream for themselves. And remember, it's not only electricity we're looking for. We'll probably visit a local eatery or watering hole; maybe take in a local tourist attraction or movie house. It's win-win for the whole community!

Most parks appear to get $20-35 for an nights RV parking, including amenities. So I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest no more than $10 for someone who is going to be there a maximum of 10-11 hours (from empty on Ingineer's modded L1) and using only around $3 worth of electricity. Or perhaps even an hourly charge.
 
The 50-amp "cheater" (2 posts above) is advertized as providing 50-amps when plugged into a 30-amp (120v) and 20-amp (120v) socket. However, I suspect it provides 208v or 240v, and only 20 amps maximum.

If plugged into two different phase TT-30 sockets, it would be 30 amps maximum.

I have two TT-30P to 5-15R adapter "cubes" (about $6 each), and a 2x 5-15P to L6-20R "Y" adapter (about $16 in parts) to get the 240v (or maybe 208v) for my Mod-L1 EVSE.
 
smkettner said:
Progressive Industries ADT-230 Cheater Box Retail: $79.00
Features:
The Cheater Box plugs into and 30amp and a 20amp source on separate circuits to give user a 50amp output.
Will not operate on a GFCI circuit.
Designed for outdoor use.
Their "features" description is a little misleading, as it combines two single 120V circuits to give a 120/240V circuit.
The amperage at 240V is limited by the lowest amperage of the source 120V circuits. It's a NEMA 14-50R 50 Amp receptacle, rated for 50 Amps but it's connected to sources that supply less than 50 Amps. So it's a 50 Amp receptacle on effectively a 30, 20 or 15 Amp circuit depending on the source circuits you plug it in to.

This image shows the source plugs which helps to understand this little box better:
Cheater_Box.jpg


This Google search on part number "230-ADTP30" digs up more suppliers and a few reviews.
Here's yet another nice diagram of the NEMA configurations: http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm
Stay On Line's reference center: http://www.stayonline.com/reference-home.aspx
NEMA Straight Blade: http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-straight-blade.aspx
NEMA Locking: http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-locking.aspx
 
garygid said:
The 50-amp "cheater" (2 posts above) is advertized as providing 50-amps when plugged into a 30-amp (120v) and 20-amp (120v) socket. However, I suspect it provides 208v or 240v, and only 20 amps maximum.

If plugged into two different phase TT-30 sockets, it would be 30 amps maximum.

I have two TT-30P to 5-15R adapter "cubes" (about $6 each), and a 2x 5-15P to L6-20R "Y" adapter (about $16 in parts) to get the 240v (or maybe 208v) for my Mod-L1 EVSE.
You're correct, 240/208v at 20a. But I don’t think the RVs use it that way. They simply connect some of their 120v plugs to one side and some to the other. So one circuit has 120v 20a and the other has 120v 30a.
 
I think the reason it's called a 50amp cheater is that even RV'ers don't know enough technical detail, and simply expect a NEMA14-50R (receptacle), which they refer to as "50 amp service". The actual amperage supplied is of less importance to them than the compatibility with the plug they use.
 
Yes, RVer terminology is a bit weird. If they can plug a 20amp air-conditioner into one (120V) leg, and a 30amp air-conditioner into the other 120V leg then they call it "50 amp service" (20+30). I think a typical RV may only have 120V appliances, and even though they use a NEMA14-50 240V plug/socket it is really just a way to get two feeds of 120V.
 
TEG said:
Yes, RVer terminology is a bit weird. If they can plug a 20amp air-conditioner into one (120V) leg, and a 30amp air-conditioner into the other 120V leg then they call it "50 amp service" (20+30). I think a typical RV may only have 120V appliances, and even though they use a NEMA14-50 240V plug/socket it is really just a way to get two feeds of 120V.
That's not correct as I understand it. NEMA 14-50 is a 120/240V circuit that is rated at up to 50A for 120V or 240V applications. If you nave an electric barbeque pit (mythical) that used 240V at 40 Amps (Can only use 80% of circuit rating for a continuous load, per NEC), you can plug it in to a NEMA 14-50 on a 120/240V 50 Amp circuit.

Thr trailer park may ask you to draw less current than the NEMA 14-50R receptacle is rated for if they have it on a smaller circuit, the power is shared etc. NEMA 14-50R is often used on 40A circuits since there isn't a NEMA 40 Amp configuration. For 6.6 kW charging, you'd use a NEMA 14-50 on a 40 Amp circuit and the charger draws about 30 Amps continuously. When we have 6.6 kW charging for hte LEAF in future generations (some other EVs have it now), there's a big difference in charge time between a NEMA 14-50R on 20 Amps, vs 40 or 50 Amps.
 
ElectricVehicle said:
TEG said:
Yes, RVer terminology is a bit weird. If they can plug a 20amp air-conditioner into one (120V) leg, and a 30amp air-conditioner into the other 120V leg then they call it "50 amp service" (20+30). I think a typical RV may only have 120V appliances, and even though they use a NEMA14-50 240V plug/socket it is really just a way to get two feeds of 120V.
That's not correct as I understand it. NEMA 14-50 is a 120/240V circuit that is rated at up to 50A for 120V or 240V applications.

I think the RVers use the 14-50 plug/socket in ways that aren't typical.
For instance, check out the "Dogbone" adapters:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=dogbone+adapter&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=1181167407191672565&sa=X&ei=vWm2TZnaPIfGsAOKpr2pAQ&ved=0CDEQ8wIwAg#
iInJObrkkx-OxM_pNx3nrln6NS7i3fZW6whdbMJ5OiF1LJkMjSA0nuc2r5Sw7trbSGBXrmMigMlwymC0WwuHKCB-StgNhNdeNMIckf0tgCTLR302_mJPkWIicTPqpShYHFAnmotVgUH3CgTY_iRYyyTLeukrU0XDuLx8zw

The way they state it you get "50 amp service from a 30 amp plug".
The RV terminology just seems to be "50 amp" means NEMA14-50, but they may only have one 120V leg active on the 14-50, and it may be fed by a 30 amp breaker on the other end.
Basically what I am saying is that when you see a cord with a NEMA14-50 on the end at a campground, don't assume it has 50amps of 240V available.

---

http://www.rvtravel.com/publish/120-Volt_AC_Systems.shtml
...Campground hook-ups often have three receptacles: 20, 30 and 50 amps.
...This is because the 50-amp receptacle actually conducts two 120-volt circuits in order to supply the 50 amps that big rigs need.
In effect, it is a 240-volt receptacle, like those used for electric clothes dryers in a house.
RVs with two air conditioners need the 50-amp circuit in order to run both air conditioners at the same time, because each air conditioner runs on a separate 120-volt circuit.
...Adapters are available that will allow you to hook up your RV to any campground receptacle regardless of what type of plug is on the RV power cord. Of course, you are limited to the available amperage at the receptacle. A 20-amp receptacle will limit the number of appliances that can be run at the same time and may not be sufficient to run an air conditioner. An RV that has a 50-amp plug may find that only one air conditioner will operate if plugged into a 30-amp receptacle.
If your RV is connected to a receptacle that is higher than what is required (for example, when a 30-amp power cord with an adapter is plugged into a 50-amp receptacle), you must limit your electrical usage to 30 amps at any one time. Even though 50 amps are available, the main circuit breaker will trip if the RV is pulling more than 30 amps...
 
I'm not sure what the primary applications for the NEMA 6-20 are, but I made an adapter for it and as the Brits say, "works a treat".

6247.jpg
 
z0ner said:
I'm not sure what the primary applications for the NEMA 6-20 are, but I made an adapter for it and as the Brits say, "works a treat".

6247.jpg
At the train station in Hamilton NJ they have 5 EV parking spots: 4 are 5-20R 120V but 1 is 6-20R 240V.
 
z0ner said:
I'm not sure what the primary applications for the NEMA 6-20 are, but I made an adapter for it and as the Brits say, "works a treat".

The (not yet released) Leviton Evr-Green chargers have a NEMA 6-20 plug. That's why I had to rig a 2-stage adapter:
1) modified 10-30 dryer cable plug to 6-20r (for the Leviton)
2) molded 6-20p to L6-20r adapter (for the modified L2 EVSE)

I'll probably start off with the Nissan EVSE until Leviton (or someone else) starts selling a wall-mount EVSE at a reasonable price (like less than the AE unit). They certainly don't make it easy!
 
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