Q: 120V emergency cord

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

IceRaven

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
17
1- Since typical electric outlets usually have 2 connections for 2 plugs (dont laugh if its nonsense) , could there be an alternate 120V emergency cord model with dual cords ending with 2 plugs, so that you can connect both cables? Would that have the potential to channel more electricity? Would the Leaf charger be able to channel this dual 120V input to reduce charging time?

2- Is there any way the 120v recharge time can be reduced closer to 10 hours than the current 18-20 hours?
(I had read that with the new charger, 6.6kW I assume, regular 120V recharge would be halved from 20 to 10 hours, was this a mistake by the writer since it now appears the 6.6 is only for 240V, or is there some other tech that Nissan has announced that would reduce 120V to 10 hours)
 
It all depends on the amp rating of the circuit and breaker that the outlet is attached to. If you're running a 20amp breaker, then the total possible amperage at that outlet is 20. That could be split 10 amps per plug, 15 on one and 5 on the other, or all 20 on one plug. If you're drawing 20 amps on one plug and you plug in a 5amp drill on the other one at the same time.... *click* goes your breaker.

So no, you can't really 'double up' the power by adding a pigtail.
 
You might avoid a little overheating of the plug but not a good plan... there is no assurance those two receptacles are "electrically identical". One half could be switched, the two halves could even be on different circuits on opposite phases. If you plugged in two plugs that were wired together you would energized the switched circuit, or worse, PFFFFFTT-click!
 
The limitation is 120V , 15 Amps. You can't put to of them in parallel - since the car has only one input. Though it is an interesting idea - if the car had two inputs - you could potentially use 2 120V inputs from two separate circuits and reduce charging time.
 
evnow said:
The limitation is 120V , 15 Amps. You can't put to of them in parallel - since the car has only one input. Though it is an interesting idea - if the car had two inputs - you could potentially use 2 120V inputs from two separate circuits and reduce charging time.

If you could find two receptacles on opposite phases you could rig up a 15amp (or maybe 20) 220v evse. Pretty rube goldberg though.
 
What you are contemplating ... can be found here: http://www.quick220.com/

This would give you 240V and (theoretically) cut the charging time in half. A Tesla owner has done this (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php?t=2998). But he also uses an intermediate device which solves the problem why I don't think this will work directly on the LEAF. At Level2 charging you need the pilot signal, not just the "juice". I could be wrong ... may be the LEAF can be fooled to think it is doing Level 1 charging (where no pilot signal is needed) but use the 240volts you supply anyway. Now your charging time is cut in half (and using the maximum 3.3kw for the initial LEAFs).

Remember, you need to combine two 120V circuits out-of-phase, but it is worth a try ...
 
Typically all the 120v sockets in one room (or both sides of one wall) are wired to one phase, to minimize the amount of wire needed.

CAREFULLY, one could identify two sockets, each on a different phase. Then, by constructing a "Y" type pigtail to plug into both sockets, get 240v, usually from 15-amp breakers (occasionally on 20-amp breakers). NOTE: most people should NOT attempt this.

Assuming the 15-amp breakers, that "connection" could provide 15 x 80% = 12 amps at 240v to power a 240v "EVSE".

However, without the "max current" square wave "control signal" to the car from a 240v EVSE ... the default might be "Error", so the EVSE-compliant LEAF would probably not charge.

Some extra circuitry would probably be required.

For a 120v EVSE, I think there might be a "max current" of 12 amps assumed without the square wave, and that default might also apply to the 240v EVSE.

Without the current J1772 standards document, I do not know for sure.
 
@Gary: What you describe (quite well) in your first three paragraphs is what the Quick220 does for you -- safely. Which was the point of my post above. Now ... who's got the wherewithal to design the electronics for the pilot signal ?
 
The possibilities for shoddy half-assed electrical setups are pretty much unlimited. I've got a fair amount of experience doing electrical work though and feel there's a lot to be said for having properly engineered, certified equipment installed as it was intended. That said, you know there are going to be a lot of EV's charged by hot-wiring porch lights. It's all fun and games till somebody loses an eyeball.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
The possibilities for shoddy half-assed electrical setups are pretty much unlimited. I've got a fair amount of experience doing electrical work though and feel there's a lot to be said for having properly engineered, certified equipment installed as it was intended. That said, you know there are going to be a lot of EV's charged by hot-wiring porch lights. It's all fun and games till somebody loses an eyeball.

You mean something like this is not upto code ?

indiancity_powerpole.jpg
 
LEAFer said:
At Level2 charging you need the pilot signal, not just the "juice". I could be wrong ... may be the LEAF can be fooled to think it is doing Level 1 charging (where no pilot signal is needed) but use the 240volts you supply anyway.
I don't think your level 1 pilot statement can be right. Level 1 goes through the same connector on the Leaf as level 2, and I am quite sure that level 1 charging uses exactly the same kind of handshaking as level 2; it is just that the car and the EVSE agree on a different voltage and amperage. Yes, I said EVSE. The 120V "emergency cord" is not just a cord. It has an EVSE built into it where it plugs into the wall.
 
The EVSE "handshaking" (the Control Pilot wire) probably carries a different "DC" voltage to the car (maybe just one different resistor in the EVSE) to indicate 120v power instead of 240v power.

With "no" pilot signal (or perhaps some minimal, fixed-voltage pilot signal) from the EVSE, I think the car is to expect 120v and draw no more than 12 amps after the J-Plug is in place.

Someone with the J1772 specs (AndyH) might be able to tell us for sure.

I would look if I had the standards document.
 
planet4ever said:
LEAFer said:
At Level2 charging you need the pilot signal, not just the "juice". I could be wrong ... may be the LEAF can be fooled to think it is doing Level 1 charging (where no pilot signal is needed) but use the 240volts you supply anyway.
I don't think your level 1 pilot statement can be right. Level 1 goes through the same connector on the Leaf as level 2, and I am quite sure that level 1 charging uses exactly the same kind of handshaking as level 2; it is just that the car and the EVSE agree on a different voltage and amperage. Yes, I said EVSE. The 120V "emergency cord" is not just a cord. It has an EVSE built into it where it plugs into the wall.
I am basing my statement on what I have learned about Tesla's implementation. The "emergency cord" supplied with a Roadster is simply a cable with NEMA 5-15P GFCI on one end, and the Tesla proprietary charge port connector (instead of J1772 plug) on the other end. On "teslamotorsclub.com" there is talk about the GFCI being too sensitive, causing tripping (and resultant abort of the charging process), and it has been suggested, and some owners have done so, to replace the GFCI NEMA5-15P with a regular non-GFCI version. There simply can't be any other "intelligence" (control signal) in that connector. Yes, that's unconfirmed, but a pretty reasonable bet (if I were a betting man). Here's a link to Tesla's product: http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/charging/products/mobile-connector-120

And here's the TMC topic for your reading pleasure: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php?t=2875

Edit: This forum is about the LEAF ... the technique used could naturally be different ... so ... we would like to know: Is the "emergency cord" a "real" EVSE, or just a "dumb" 120V/12A "extension cord" ?
 
With a 120v extension cord, a J-Plug (the J1772 plug), a "handle"/hood for the J-Plug, and possibly a few small parts, it should be possible to make an "emergency" 120v LEAF-charge "hose".

Of course, it might not be legal to use it, and a "real" 120v EVSE comes with each LEAF. So why bother to make one, unless the Nissan "hose" is too expensive.

Getting the J-Plug and the "handle" is the hard part.
If I can obtain these, I will see exactly what needs to be done from the J1772 specifications.

PM for my address if you want to send a J-Plug, a "handle", or a copy of the J1772 specs.
 
evnow said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
The possibilities for shoddy half-assed electrical setups are pretty much unlimited. I've got a fair amount of experience doing electrical work though and feel there's a lot to be said for having properly engineered, certified equipment installed as it was intended. That said, you know there are going to be a lot of EV's charged by hot-wiring porch lights. It's all fun and games till somebody loses an eyeball.

You mean something like this is not upto code ?

indiancity_powerpole.jpg


Did you Google Earth my address?
 
EVDRIVER said:
Did you Google Earth my address?

This is the place I stayed at when visiting India :lol:

In some places in the sub-continent it is common to "steal" power by directly connecting to live wires that run overhead everywhere. They just bribe the utility guy.

Things can get so bad - the "trasmission losses" can run over 50%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4802248.stm

Similar scenes can be seen in many parts of Delhi. According to the latest official estimate, as much as 42% of the power supplied to India's capital disappears through "transmission losses", meaning it is consumed without being paid for. In effect, it is stolen.
 
I have seen converters that convert 120v to 220v (its a black box you plug in a 120v outlet and theres a 220v outlet on it), I guess thats equally useless in this case?

What is the "Pilot Signal" ?


I guess if its technically possible to have a cable that connects to a 120v and charges faster but there arent any initially, when thousands upon thousands of leafs are in the market, if Nissan doesnt offer such a product someone else might, I hope it wouldn't be 600$ like the Tesla cable though.

I'll have to check ranges, but theres a cottage I go over to once every few years, I think I can get there but would have a low charge on the battery and there wont be an official 220v Station at the cottage or any fast charge nearby(forest and cottages), being able to recharge with 120v overnight in about 12h would do the trick and would be great. Otherwise I'll just rent a car for these rare trips (but theres a so close feeling)
 
IceRaven said:
I have seen converters that convert 120v to 220v (its a black box you plug in a 120v outlet and theres a 220v outlet on it), I guess thats equally useless in this case?

Step-up transformer. I have one I use to drive an old stereo system I brought with me from the UK. Can't imagine they'd be applicable to the Leaf in any way.
 
Back
Top