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garygid
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:47 pm

The last part of the big highlighted paragraph "Installing ... details." seems to say that the EVSE may be properly installed by anyone, and that Nissan expects AV to sell their EVSE unit to us, without installation charges.

Next call back to Nissan, tell them that AV refused to sell you an EVSE unit, or even quote a price.

Let Nissan lean on AV a bit.
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pgrovetom
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:38 am

I did Nissan back and asked for a supervisor. Id say AV refused to sell the unit. It was the Nissan customer service supervisor who adamantly ( and not so friendly ) insisted AV was right and my only option was the AV unit installed by AV and approved by Nissan.

As far as compatibility is concerned. I was in telecom for 25 years and compatibility means Nissan test engineers take a ne EVSE supplier into their lab and verify all the functions work properly. Since Nissan has all the details of their auto side connector ( remember more than one supplier will provide them to drawings) and the physical dimensions, staging distances, pilot signal and its signalling from the on auto charger to the EVSE. Only Nissan can say "This EVSE is qualified as compatible". I can't and another supplier can't with Nissan and the supplier cooperating. Probably AV made some sweetheart promises to Nissan so Nissan picked them first. This connector is so simple, compatibility testing might take from one day to a week tops.

In any case at $2200, the EVSE is more than 10% of the whole Leaf Net price after credits. And ITS AN EXTENSION CHORD!
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pgrovetom
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:52 am

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pgrovetom
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EVSE questions

Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:04 am

Nissan

I was told I could only use the EVSE from Aerovironment and only if they install it. Is that true?

Is it ok if I go to my local county building department pull a permit and run the EMT conduit from a new 40A breaker in my 100A secondary panel in my garage and 3 #8 red, black and white plus #10 green ground THHN wire indoors in my garage to a metal box exactly where I want the EVSE. I can get it inspected for NEC code and county compliance and then all AV has to do is run a couple feet to my box or pull my box and wire directly to the EVSE. That way the installation is a snap and already approved and NEC compliant.

The AV EVSE requires 30A which requires a 40A breaker and 3 #8 wire plus a #10 ground. My situation is about 25 feet indoors.

How about that Nissan?
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garygid
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Re: EVSE questions

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:07 am

(muffled voice on the phone)
... gasp, burp, gulp, ... hey boss, what do I tell this guy? :)
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AndyH
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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:13 am

I cannot refute what you report, and absolutely will not tell you that you've done anything wrong.

What I will say is that in other parts of the world - Canada, Japan and most of Europe specifically - automakers can and do routinely 'require' use of specific products. This is absolutely prohibited in the US.

In the US, manufacturers can and will say things like "for best performance use Genuine ... parts" But they cannot say "your warranty will be void if you don't use ... parts" unless they provide those parts free of charge. That's a significant aspect of the Magnuson-Moss act that I referenced earlier.

Nissan USA CAN say that they will only 'support' using an AV EVSE - all that means is that 'if you need help operating your Coulomb EVSE, don't call us!'. Think about this for a moment - the EV Project is NOT using AeroVironment EVSE hardware - they're using Coulomb. There are a number of companies selling J1772 EVSE devices - and they ENTIRE point of these standardized devices is that they work with all EVs that use J1772.

Here's a real-world example of how this can affect a manufacturer. Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP) stated in their 2009 owners manuals that "Use of other engine oils may cause severe engine damage and may void the limited warranty" and "no known equivalent” to Bombardier (BRP) oil on the market. When notified by a US oil manufacturer that the language in the owners manuals violated Federal law, BRP agreed that it will no longer say that using non-BRP branded products may void the warranty, that they will make clear that their product recommendations are clearly labeled as 'recommendations rather than requirements, and they will no longer comment on availability of equivalent products.
pgrovetom wrote:In any case at $2200, the EVSE is more than 10% of the whole Leaf Net price after credits. And ITS AN EXTENSION CHORD!
The $2200 is for the EVSE, installation, permit, and inspection. It's more than just an extension cord. And it's completely optional - one does not have to buy an EVSE at all.

If you want to put an end to the 'AV-Only' foolishness, simply ask AV and/or Nissan for their 'requirement' in writing. It'll stop there.

Andy

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EVDRIVER
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Re: EVSE questions

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:15 am

garygid wrote:(muffled voice on the phone)
... gasp, burp, gulp, ... hey boss, what do I tell this guy? :)


I spoke to the install appt people who called me and they acted as though the price would not go down if I did work like this. Most likely they are wrong but perhaps someone with an early appt can ask these questions! It will be easy to compare estimates.
I'm starting a thread.

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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:21 am

I won't add anything to what Andy has said ... other than to say, if you have the time to read thru the info in the above links there are some interesting tidbits. Like, a photo of the Residential AV with the cover off while being installed. Like, the eTec EVSE units will "smartly" communicate with the grid (and Zigbee is mentioned). etc etc.

Interesting readig, thanks.
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DaveEV
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Re: EVSE questions

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:38 am

pgrovetom wrote:Is it ok if I go to my local county building department pull a permit and run the EMT conduit from a new 40A breaker in my 100A secondary panel in my garage and 3 #8 red, black and white plus #10 green ground THHN wire indoors in my garage to a metal box exactly where I want the EVSE. I can get it inspected for NEC code and county compliance and then all AV has to do is run a couple feet to my box or pull my box and wire directly to the EVSE. That way the installation is a snap and already approved and NEC compliant.
Definitely OK to do and should significantly reduce the EVSE installation costs.

To save on permit costs, I wonder if you can combine the 240V 40A line run and EVSE installation inspection - sometimes permits can be expensive.

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Re: Level 2 Charger Confusion

Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:43 am

pgrovetom wrote:In any case at $2200, the EVSE is more than 10% of the whole Leaf Net price after credits. And ITS AN EXTENSION CHORD!
After credits the EVSE is $1,100. So, it is less than 5% of the car cost of 25K after credits.
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