Heater Coolant Hot when Charging - Teakettle Syndrome

"Teakettle" (or "Stanley the Steamer") is gone on second service trip to second (original) dealer, OC Nissan Irvine this AM. I described problem to "service assistant". He said the "LEAF expert" was in today. Called after 3 hours to see if anyone had plugged in car to an electric source (either L1 or L2) this AM to see if heating appears. No reply from his voice mail yet (gone to lunch?).
Gregg

TRONZ said:

Have only had the fans come on time to time. No coolant sounds of any kind for us.

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Same here . . . whether 120v or 240v charging.

IBELEAF said:

Just a thought, but maybe that's why Nissan recommends L2 charging over L1...

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Really?
Link please?
thx

smkettner said:

starry said:

I am not aware of any indicators for pump activity. I can only go by what I can feel and hear.
To quote myself: "I do hear pump motor noise as a faint hum." I feel fluid moving through the pressurized tubes. I cannot feel any vibration on the front pump, and the pump for the rear inverter/charger is not available for inspection, as far as I know.

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If fluid is boiling and pump is running then all piping or tubing should be very hot (240 to 270F?) to the touch all the way to the radiator and the radiator fan (I assume it has one) should be running.

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This smacks as the same symptom as (the other) Gary, as though there's simply air in the system that never got properly bled off.

on "coolant" sounds. the fan seems (quiet as it is) to drown out the coolant sounds. there is definitely water circulating and most likely happens most of the time.

i could not hear water until i squeezed the hose running from side to side near front. then i could hear the water running. the hose is not under pressure so was easy to compress

hill said:

This smacks as the same symptom as (the other) Gary, as though there's simply air in the system that never got properly bled off.

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It just doesn't make any sense at all that the cabin heater would be heating the climate control fluid.
I don't buy the air bubble theory.

I think the resistive heating element is accidentally turning on, without the rest of the cabin heating turning on. This just heats the liquid in place and boils it. The normal pump & fan isn't dumping the heat into the cabin, and the whole system is dangerously running without check.

Let that fluid boil off and see what happens -- I'd be surprised if something didn't trip an over-heat fuse link or start a small fire in the cabin heater box.

i think we are getting a bit carried away. most resistive heating elements burn themselves out waaaay before that point

Sorry to have my obtuse showing so early in the morning, but is this one or two persons (and cars) having this trouble?

Is "starry" and "garygid" two cars/people or one? This thing started off with one person speaking in the third person, now it's two people speaking in first person?

Did "garygid" loan "starry" his hacked L2 charger and end up smoking something in the charging circuits? Not that I've ever bricked a device before... :roll:

What am I missing here?

If the water is not circulating it will get hot in one area. My pump was defective, I assume there is something that measures flow as my heater shut off immediately after no flow. It is easy to check flow in the system. The system should self bleed via the overflow, if there is that much air in the system in may not flow but that sounds odd, I would run it a few minutes on a steep incline up and down but it should bleed on its own if designed properly.

"starry" and "garygid" are describing the same car (starry's) and its out-the-gate problem.

It appears that there were two problems:

1. The HV cooling system probably had not-purged air trapped in the charger.

After the HV system was properly purged of air, the HV cooling now seems to be acting normally.

2. The Control module for the Heater is probably defective, causing the Heater system coolant to climb, climb, ... in temperature. No apparent circulation, and just while charging.

The Nissan engineer will/should look at it Wed. or Thurs. and we will post again when we know more.

Clippy said:

Sorry to have my obtuse showing . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
Did "garygid" loan "starry" his hacked L2 charger and end up smoking something in the charging circuits? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip . . . . . . What am I missing here?

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Um, a battery pack's charging/management system couldn't care less whether it's incomming voltage is 120V or 240V or whether an EVSE has been modified to deliver either voltage.

.

hill said:

Clippy said:

Sorry to have my obtuse showing . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
Did "garygid" loan "starry" his hacked L2 charger and end up smoking something in the charging circuits? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip . . . . . . What am I missing here?

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Um, a battery pack's charging/management system couldn't care less whether it's incomming voltage is 120V or 240V or whether an EVSE has been modified to deliver either voltage.

.

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Well, in meaning that it's not going to "smoke something"; yes. But the on-board charger does "care" what voltage it's fed, and uses a feedback system to adjust the incoming PWM duty cycle to insure that the correct current is consumed. It has to reference the incoming Pilot signal from the EVSE to make this decision.

-Phil

Well, "someone" should sell a little box that supplies a fake pilot signal to the onboard charger, with a Dial-an-Amp rotary switch on it.. put in a GFI to be safe and provide a socket to plug in a 240V or 220V extension.. I assume the charger in the car is auto-ranging and will adapt to 120V or 240V. Then all you would need to charge your Leaf would be an extension cord, but not a chintzy one please.. #12 at least. So no one can steal your EVSE while you are charging away from home.. its internal to the car, at most they can steal the extension cord.

It would be great to have a little retractable cord built into the car. Flip the lid, pull out the 120v plug to reach the outlet, DONE. no box to get out of the backpack in the trunk, nothing worthwhile to steal. All built-in and always available.

For 120v at 12A, it should be as simple as a pull-out cord.

Back to the Teakettle Syndrome:

Nissan says the needed part should (maybe) come in tomorrow, and that the battery must be removed to access the LEAF's guts.

Oops, we dropped your battery!
The 12v battery?
Noooo, ... the BIG one! :lol:

I look forward to finding out what part was needed to correct the teakettle issue.

EV2E said:

I look forward to finding out what part was needed to correct the teakettle issue.

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+1

I have owned the LEAF SL (StanLEAF Steamer) since 4/27 (5PM) and this is morning of the tenth day. I have had the car in my posession for a total of about 96 hours and about 100 miles driven by me, mostly back and forth to dealerships. It has been in for service twice so far, first time up on back of a tow truck. It is still in the dealership repair right now, with battery out, and Nissan Japan techs trying to discover why the climate control heater is on while charging.
This seems to be a fine example of "bleeding edge" technology.
Gregg

starry said:

I have owned the LEAF SL (StanLEAF Steamer) since 4/27 (5PM) and this is morning of the tenth day. I have had the car in my posession for a total of about 96 hours and about 100 miles driven by me, mostly back and forth to dealerships. It has been in for service twice so far, first time up on back of a tow truck. It is still in the dealership repair right now, with battery out, and Nissan Japan techs trying to discover why the climate control heater is on while charging.
This seems to be a fine example of "bleeding edge" technology.
Gregg

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I feel for you, man. That would be intensely frustrating.

Hang in there. For all their screwups on delivery, Nissan seems very interested in working the early failures out and sending the experts to the car.

I'm following this thread with interest, since I can't imagine a single part in the car responsible for this behavior. It really does seem impossible, yet there it is..

I am confused why the main battery would be removed to diagnose the heater :?

starry said:

I have owned the LEAF SL (StanLEAF Steamer) since 4/27 (5PM) and this is morning of the tenth day.
...
Gregg

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GroundLoop said:

I feel for you, man. That would be intensely frustrating.

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+1

GroundLoop said:

Hang in there. For all their screwups on delivery, Nissan seems very interested in working the early failures out and sending the experts to the car.

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And thanks, Gregg, for involuntarily "falling on your sword" to benefit the rest of us LEAF owners!

I drove "StanLEAF Steamer" about 22 miles home last evening, let it sit out (ALL ALONE!) on the driveway, getting real cool.
Charging this AM with the L2 voltage by using Garygid's modified Nissan EVSE and my dryer AC socket in the garage. After two hours, no noticable increase in temps anywhere under the hood. Will test drive later today.
Bill from OC Nissan Irvine says the
"Dealer replace HTC switch, further diagnosis Junction Switch in Battery Control Module failed. Replaced.
Recheck fitment: Good.
Cleared system and recharged with test drive: Good.
No further action required.

Leaf-Module $416
DAT 294A1-3NA0A NSTK BOX ASSY - JUNC $538.93
DAT VOR/294A1 INSF VE5912 $53.89
Allowance: $215.87
Tech 418
Parts $808.39
Lab-Mechanical $416
Total charge $1224.39
FAC Warranty $1224.39
Nissan North America"

Maybe that will do the trick.
Gregg