Public charging station protocol

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Kataphn

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
753
Location
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Do you think we will all be able to follow this protocol at public stations? http://www.evchargernews.com/chargingprotocol.htm

Seems like it needs to be updated. I am sure this will be an issue as more and more EVs want to access the public charging spaces.
 
In the mid/late 90's and into the early 2000's there were very few of us using the chargers compared to what the expected demand will be if EV's hit mainstream. That protocol worked well then as we were a small community and were all willing to accept it as a group.

I brought this up at the eTec town hall as a concern and it seemed to be blown off. There were several people there who were involved in the EV1/S-10E programs and understood where I was coming from.

I will say one thing. If I approach a charger in my Leaf and there is a Volt plugged-in, and I need to charge, I will unplug the Volt. They are a glorified hybrid and can still get by on gasoline, at least in a cripple mode. EV's do not have a gasoline crutch and I will treat Volts accordingly. I look for this to become an issue as the EV parking spots will be prime locations during the holiday shopping season, sporting events, etc. They were that way in the past and I had numerous gasoline cars towed for parking in an EV only spot (some were trying to fake people out and laying the inductive paddles in their grilles like they were charging... nice try).
 
Skywagon said:
In the mid/late 90's and into the early 2000's there were very few of us using the chargers compared to what the expected demand will be if EV's hit mainstream. That protocol worked well then as we were a small community and were all willing to accept it as a group.

I brought this up at the eTec town hall as a concern and it seemed to be blown off. There were several people there who were involved in the EV1/S-10E programs and understood where I was coming from.

I will say one thing. If I approach a charger in my Leaf and there is a Volt plugged-in, and I need to charge, I will unplug the Volt. They are a glorified hybrid and can still get by on gasoline, at least in a cripple mode. EV's do not have a gasoline crutch and I will treat Volts accordingly. I look for this to become an issue as the EV parking spots will be prime locations during the holiday shopping season, sporting events, etc. They were that way in the past and I had numerous gasoline cars towed for parking in an EV only spot (some were trying to fake people out and laying the inductive paddles in their grilles like they were charging... nice try).


I've seen this as well . I do think that anything with tank of gas should give way to an EV.
 
Skywagon said:
I will say one thing. If I approach a charger in my Leaf and there is a Volt plugged-in, and I need to charge, I will unplug the Volt.
I will readily admit - I am new to the EV scene , unlike yourself. But this attitude to me seems elitist, and likely to get your car keyed if not worse.

I completely agree with you about a car that does not accept charging should get towed if the spot is clearly designated as for charging vehicles only. But to feel you have more of a "right" to a charge than a Volt is preposterous. You're making a number of assumptions about the Volt driver and even if you're completely correct you still don't have more of a right.
 
JasonT said:
Skywagon said:
I will say one thing. If I approach a charger in my Leaf and there is a Volt plugged-in, and I need to charge, I will unplug the Volt.
I will readily admit - I am new to the EV scene , unlike yourself. But this attitude to me seems elitist, and likely to get your car keyed if not worse.

I completely agree with you about a car that does not accept charging should get towed if the spot is clearly designated as for charging vehicles only. But to feel you have more of a "right" to a charge than a Volt is preposterous. You're making a number of assumptions about the Volt driver and even if you're completely correct you still don't have more of a right.

When I use a charger, I leave a card on my dash with my cell # and paper clip the time I plan to charge to.

http://www.evchargernews.com/chargeprotocolcard.pdf

If I find a car on the charger, I will only unhook it if it is done charging, otherwise I leave it unless there is a phone# / Time / Contact.

Also, the J1772 protocol allows for a “Connector lock” on the vehicle that will lock the charge cable to the car unless released. Don’t know if Nissan plans to use this. Courtesy seems a better option.
 
Since a hybrid, like the Volt, will never "need" to charge in public, and Pure EVs depend on it, perhaps the signs should say "Pure EVs ONLY, NO Hybrids".

There is no good reason to make the very limited public charging facilities available to hybrids.
 
garygid said:
Since a hybrid, like the Volt, will never "need" to charge in public, and Pure EVs depend on it, perhaps the signs should say "Pure EVs ONLY, NO Hybrids".

There is no good reason to make the very limited public charging facilities available to hybrids.

Don't let the Volt forum people hear you say that. They will argue that they are a pure ev, and that it is not a hybrid. They have an extended range electric vehicle. They say they are a BEV with a range extender. "vehicles with fuel tanks not allowed".
 
palmermd said:
garygid said:
Since a hybrid, like the Volt, will never "need" to charge in public, and Pure EVs depend on it, perhaps the signs should say "Pure EVs ONLY, NO Hybrids".

There is no good reason to make the very limited public charging facilities available to hybrids.

Don't let the Volt forum people hear you say that. They will argue that they are a pure ev, and that it is not a hybrid. They have an extended range electric vehicle. They say they are a BEV with a range extender. "vehicles with fuel tanks not allowed".


I won't go there but the word "Hybrid" seems to indicate more than one fuel type and the volt is one fat PIG of a heavy EV. I makes the Leaf look light weight:)
 
garygid said:
Since a hybrid, like the Volt, will never "need" to charge in public, and Pure EVs depend on it, perhaps the signs should say "Pure EVs ONLY, NO Hybrids".

There is no good reason to make the very limited public charging facilities available to hybrids.
I very strongly feel that this is a bad path to go down, and shouldn't be done.

Since the Volt can run without someone putting in any gas at all, I don't see why they should be excluded. I can very easily see some Volt users who got it for the "extended range" but only gas up if they are actually going outside of their 40mile range. Just because someone buys a Volt doesn't necessarily mean they have any more love of Big Oil than us Leafers do.

We really need to all "get along". Certainly most (if not all) of the people here feel that the Leaf is a better solution than the Volt. But the Leaf clearly has limitations as well - the biggest one being that it just doesn't work for a single-car household that needs to go more than about 80 miles. I live in Tucson -- the next big city is Phoenix which is about 100 miles away. If we didn't have a second car I would not have even looked at the Leaf -- it just wouldn't work for us.

This makes me think about the South Park episode that was about Prius owners. It got to where the Prius owners were loving the smell of their own farts. I just don't want to see Leafers ending up being looked at the same way.

Will there be growing pains? Certainly. Until electric charging stations are on every corner like gas stations are now, it's going to be bumpy. And as long as charging stations are free, everyone will want to tap in wherever they can. But the solution is not to try to further sub-divide the market making an "us vs them". The solution is to push for more charging stations, to encourage retailers the value of attracting plug-in users to their stores.
 
JasonT said:
I very strongly feel that this is a bad path to go down, and shouldn't be done.

Since the Volt can run without someone putting in any gas at all, I don't see why they should be excluded.

Absolutely. Since the whole idea is to reduce oil consumption - Volt serves a purpose.

That is why it is such a shame that both GM and thier fanboys at gm-volt.com are spending more time spreading FUD about LEAF than talk about Volt.
 
Sure, GM is trying to call the Volt an EREV rather than a PHEV. Perhaps that is partially because they want the "EV" image (even though their "40-miles" is probably some sort of "optimistic" mileage, maybe only 20 real-miles). But, perhaps they also want to get into the "EV only" parking.

Well, good arguments, but no charging for a "pure" EV can mean not getting home.

No charging for a EREV just means saving some (for the Volt, very little) gasoline.

So, EVs should at least have priority over any "Gas-Suckers".
 
JasonT said:
garygid said:
Since a hybrid, like the Volt, will never "need" to charge in public, and Pure EVs depend on it, perhaps the signs should say "Pure EVs ONLY, NO Hybrids".

There is no good reason to make the very limited public charging facilities available to hybrids.
I very strongly feel that this is a bad path to go down, and shouldn't be done.
...
We really need to all "get along".
...
Will there be growing pains? Certainly. ... But the solution is not to try to further sub-divide the market making an "us vs them". The solution is to push for more charging stations, to encourage retailers the value of attracting plug-in users to their stores.
+1 :p
 
I am absolutely laughing about people who think that the Volt is an electric car. Ok, if it is truly an electric car, then don't put gas in it. With 40 miles range (best case) most people will not be able to use it as a pure electric vehicle. I speak of the general public in these terms. I have driven S-10E's that had 40 miles range on a good day and we lived with them just perfectly.

I am not meaning to be mean in anyway but if I do see a Volt charging and I NEED a charge to get going again then I will unplug the Volt and charge my Leaf. This will be in circumstances were I did not plan on a charger being out of service and have to move on to another charger. Good EV drivers should preplan their routes based on public charging anyway. With this kind of range we should not be relying on public charging to begin with; it is a convenience thing.

As far as someone commenting on cars getting keyed, that is just childish. If I catch someone damaging a car in that manner they happen to learn quickly what destruction of private property is from a law enforcement perspective.
 
Trouble is, vandalism is so quick and easy to do, difficult to catch, and very expensive to repair! So, I hate to give anybody a reason (like unplugging their Volt) to feel bad. Also, you might already suspect that the Volt owner (charging) thinks that he has a right to park and charge there.

Often, just the parking space arrangement will make it impossible for a "next" car to charge, or even park, awaiting a kind "swap over".

Then, is it an EV charging space, or an EV parking space? Who can tell if the "parked" EV is "awaiting charging" or just using close-in parking?

Perhaps, in planning for EV charging, they should provide two or three EV parking spaces for each Level 2 "charger" (EVSE). In that way, the EVSE could be more easily shared.

However, if one has to pay in some way (swipe a card, etc.) to start charging, the owner will need to actually be there to begin charging his own car.

There is much that needs to be worked out for "sharing".
 
garygid said:
There is much that needs to be worked out for "sharing".

True. If you listen to the discussions PSRC ev project guys are having about this (and related matters), it is even more complicated. For eg. PSRC wants to have some regulation regarding parking places for disabled. Then there are landlords who asking for great flexibility to maximize the revenue out of parking etc.

http://psrc.org/about/advisory/ev-comm/meeting-summaries
 
garygid said:
Trouble is, vandalism is so quick and easy to do, difficult to catch, and very expensive to repair! So, I hate to give anybody a reason (like unplugging their Volt) to feel bad. Also, you might already suspect that the Volt owner (charging) thinks that he has a right to park and charge there.

Often, just the parking space arrangement will make it impossible for a "next" car to charge, or even park, awaiting a kind "swap over".

Then, is it an EV charging space, or an EV parking space? Who can tell if the "parked" EV is "awaiting charging" or just using close-in parking?

Perhaps, in planning for EV charging, they should provide two or three EV parking spaces for each Level 2 "charger" (EVSE). In that way, the EVSE could be more easily shared.

However, if one has to pay in some way (swipe a card, etc.) to start charging, the owner will need to actually be there to begin charging his own car.

There is much that needs to be worked out for "sharing".



THis is why my frame will be hooked to the HV hot lead, insulated by the paint but the first key scratch will be the last! Kidding of course. I won't bag on the Volt but it bugs me when they call it an EV.
 
Great- every plug in Prius should be allowed as well next. I think the push should be for pure EVs first. Can't wait for the plug in Suburban taking the space as well.
 
For what its worth, the person from Ecotality said that all public charge stations that are part of the EV Project will have at least two chargers. Maybe this will help, initially, with not having to what for a charge.
 
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