Should I charge my Leaf every day?

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johnrhansen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2013
Messages
1,100
Location
Seattle, WA
With my current commute I typically use 30 percent charge per day. And when I charge, I charge to 80 percent. Should I keep charging every night as I do now, or skip a day and let it go down to 20 percent before I charge it? What would make the battery last longest?

One more scenario. I might have to drive further to work soon to where I will be using 60 to 70 percent charge every day. Should I charge it to 100 right before I leave and let it fall to 35 at the end of the day, or charge it to 80 and let it go down to 15. What would be healthier for the battery?

Range anxiety is not a concern. I have places I can stop in an emergency, but I would prefer not to.
 
johnrhansen said:
With my current commute I typically use 30 percent charge per day.
The battery will last longest when it is kept in the 30% to 50% range. So if there is a way to only charge to 60% every day just before you leave for work, then that will keep the battery life the longest. Some people do this using a timer.

80 to 15 will be healthier for the battery.
 
DanCar said:
johnrhansen said:
With my current commute I typically use 30 percent charge per day.
The battery will last longest when it is kept in the 30% to 50% range. So if there is a way to only charge to 60% every day just before you leave for work, then that will keep the battery life the longest. Some people do this using a timer.

80 to 15 will be healthier for the battery.

Wrong. 50 to 80% is the healthiest SOC, so topic starter just keep the current way: charge from 50 to 80%. Anyway short charges is ALWAYS better that long ones, whatever SOC is in the range of 30 - 80%.
 
Den said:
DanCar said:
johnrhansen said:
With my current commute I typically use 30 percent charge per day.
The battery will last longest when it is kept in the 30% to 50% range. So if there is a way to only charge to 60% every day just before you leave for work, then that will keep the battery life the longest. Some people do this using a timer.

80 to 15 will be healthier for the battery.

Wrong. 50 to 80% is the healthiest SOC, so topic starter just keep the current way: charge from 50 to 80%. Anyway short charges is ALWAYS better that long ones, whatever SOC is in the range of 30 - 80%.

Any data to support either Den or Dan's claims?
 
I also noticed that the only time I get 6 temp bars in the morning is when I have taken on a lot of charge from the night before. With a light charge I have 5. And I heard that for batteries the cooler the better. So that is a factor too.
 
I charge my leaf on end-timer to 80%. my normal daily mileage is 14 to 20, so my cycling is shallow. Perhaps, (maybe) I could keep my average SOC lower, but the loss of utility of the vehicle isn't worth the trouble.

I notice lots of people make claims about what is best - but don't have real data to back up their beliefs. I suspect (warning, my own data-less belief here) that we are looking at very very diminishing returns when we get to this level.
 
I'd charge to 80% every day just to have the added utility in case a side-trip becomes necessary or desirable.

I think as long as you stop charging at 80% and keep it above LBW (low battery warning), you'll be doing about as much as you can. Beyond that, the most important thing you can do to extend the battery's life is to keep it cool. Park in garages & shade as much as possible.

If you ever charge to 100%, do it as close as you can before driving. Don't leave it sit for a day at 100%.

I charge to 100% (or close) almost every day, within an hour or two of leaving, and I hit LBW (and sometimes VLBW) almost every day. But the car stays in a garage at home & work, and I haven't noticed any practical decrease in my range yet.
 
I've noticed leaving the windows cracked when parked makes a huge difference keeping the battery temp down during the summer. Normally I leave them cracked when driving under 35 MPH and close them and turn the ac on over 35. I try to stay on the city streets since my commute is short so they stay cracked most of the time. Limits the cycles on the window switches and motors. I still am not experienced in winter driving since I just got my car this summer. I have an s, so I'm expecting a huge loss of range when I start driving with the heat and defrost on. Not a lot of choice there. I can't be driving with a fogged up windshield! I can be cold, but I have to see.
 
Den said:
DanCar said:
The battery will last longest when it is kept in the 30% to 50% range. So if there is a way to only charge to 60% every day just before you leave for work, then that will keep the battery life the longest. Some people do this using a timer.

80 to 15 will be healthier for the battery.
Wrong. 50 to 80% is the healthiest SOC, so topic starter just keep the current way: charge from 50 to 80%. Anyway short charges is ALWAYS better that long ones, whatever SOC is in the range of 30 - 80%.
Wrong. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
If you are charging to 80% using the end timer I don't think it matters enough to notice.
With the longer commute I would stick with 80% if you can.
Far more important to keep the battery cool.
 
Different chemistry and construction, and thus not directly comparable...

DanCar said:
Wrong. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Before we get into any heated argument, let me mention that this has been discussed on the forum many times before. The article linked below was written by a forum contributor and it sums up what our collective understanding of the topic was couple of years ago. Considering the faster than expected capacity loss in warm climates, I would reprioritize the list of recommendations and put the average temperature of the pack as the largest concern. If you can park away from the sun and pick a cooler spot, that could potentially be more more helpful than worrying about charging to 60% or 80%.

There are several processes that degrade LMO batteries. One of the more important ones is the dissolution of the cathode material (manganese) into electrolyte. It's been shown in academic research that these losses peak near the top and bottom SOC. The loss is higher at high SOC than low SOC too. That said, there appear to be some crystalline processes that distort the cathode spinel structure when the battery is left sitting at low charge (below 20%). Fortunately, these processes are slower than the other ones, and take some time. Nissan blocks off several percentage points at the top of the charge and about a couple at the bottom. This means that the amount of damage a consumer can do to the battery through overcharging or overdischarging is limited.

When you look at the accelerated aging experiments performed in various labs, it appears that one can slow down degradation by keeping a lower average SOC. So when deciding if charging between 30% and 60% or 50% and 80%, the average SOC will be higher in the latter and the dissolution of manganese into electrolyte will be higher too. When you look at the Prius, Toyota keeps the battery between 40% and 60% SOC. Although it's a different chemistry, this protocol is intended to minimize cycling losses. Their batteries are NiMH, which have been shown to be more temperature resistant.

Unfortunately, maintaining low SOC is not very practical for most owners, and we have not seen much measurable benefit. Stoaty, who seems to be doing exceedingly well, created most of the documentation on the Wiki. He drives very gently and efficiently. Additionally, he ensures that his LEAF is parked at about 30% or 40% SOC for the most part of the day. Conservative approaches won't hurt the battery, they can only help. Pack temperature seems to be by far the most important factor, but it's difficult to control.

Eight Tips to Extend Battery Life of Your Electric Car
batteryproblemmnl
 
Yes, as stated in the Wiki the way to minimize battery capacity losses:

Keep the battery as cool as possible
Keep average SOC 30-40% as much as possible
Minimize the depth of discharge (DOD) to the extent possible

The temperature is by far the most important factor. It isn't known how much a lower average SOC and shallower cycling of the battery will help, but it certainly won't hurt.
 
johnrhansen said:
I also noticed that the only time I get 6 temp bars in the morning is when I have taken on a lot of charge from the night before. With a light charge I have 5. And I heard that for batteries the cooler the better. So that is a factor too.

I have had similar experiences this summer, with a twist. Our garage has usually had temps in the 62-68F range in the mornings. Our 2011 LEAF, which usually charges via the 110V EVSE, is always at 5 temp bars in the morning. Our 2012 LEAF, which usually charges on the 240V EVSE, is about half the time at 6 temp bars in the morning. So it appears from this anecdote that level 2 charging heats the battery more than level 1, which makes sense.
 
TomT said:
Different chemistry and construction, and thus not directly comparable...
DanCar said:
Wrong. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The website covers a range of chemistries. The different chemistries don't vary that much in terms of life and percent charge as evident by references given on this page such as the wiki.
 
DanCar said:
TomT said:
Different chemistry and construction, and thus not directly comparable...
DanCar said:
Wrong. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The website covers a range of chemistries. The different chemistries don't vary that much in terms of life and percent charge as evident by references given on this page such as the wiki.
I think Tom's point was the the battery university is pretty generic. I too was reminded early on that each chemistry and even each cell, depending on the manufacturer and the materials used, can have quite different behavior and characteristics. Yes, when it comes to cycling losses and SOC ranges, there are some general principles, which apply to all cells. That said, the OP asked a question about the best charging protocol for the LEAF, and not a generic nickel cobalt laptop cell or a rechargeable NiMH AAA cell. While we can and likely will argue endlessly about what the best approach might be, that sort of question requires a specific answer.
 
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