DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14158
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
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Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:01 am

Maybe not the appropriate subforum but wanted to get this out to as many as possible.

Have a WAtonian purchased a used 2011 LEAF VIN 222 this year. It had all 12 bars but in the span of 4 months, she has lost THREE CAPACITY BARS.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 839&type=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This to me is an obvious issue with used LEAFs coming from a hot climate. Pretty sure this car was reported to have lost several bars before being returned to a dealership. But she bought it in July and it had all 12 bars.

Has anyone else purchased a used LEAF that seemed to degrade quickly? In her case, her commuting needs are very modest so she did not really know how much range the LEAF had when she bought it a few months ago but now that 3 bars are gone (she is losing them at the rate of one per month) this strongly suggests it was previously a 3 bar loser that was manipulated for sale.

**UPDATE**

As mentioned, this car was originally purchased by omcar? a few years ago and he documented his 3rd bar loss in Jan 2014 (bar disappeared in Nov 2013 or thereabouts)

The lady in question took the car in to have it inspected and that result combined with the paper trail created by Nissan's warranty tracking program has set wheels in motion for a very favorable conclusion to this nightmare. Stay tuned!
Last edited by DaveinOlyWA on Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

palmermd
Posts: 2588
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 1100011011
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:09 am

has anyone put an aftermarket capacity meter on her car to see what it says?

I hope the car is not also branded with the optOut label as well.
Michael

Leaf from 31 March 2011 - Traded 18 April 2018 for Tesla Model 3 Unicorn
Driving electric since 1996


Leaf Bar Loss

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braineo
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 008501
Location: Duluth, GA

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:12 am

Thanks for sharing, that is why NISSAN must make it right for ALL model year 2011-2012 drivers. NISSAN must guarantee a new battery replacement with no regard to years nor mileage.

NISSAN must do the right thing!

2011-2012 owners must unite to have a single request to NISSAN.

NISSAN
Make it RIGHT for model year 2011-2012 pioneers.

Just DO IT !

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14158
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:27 am

braineo wrote:Thanks for sharing, that is why NISSAN must make it right for ALL model year 2011-2012 drivers. NISSAN must guarantee a new battery replacement with no regard to years nor mileage.

NISSAN must do the right thing!

2011-2012 owners must unite to have a single request to NISSAN.

NISSAN
Make it RIGHT for model year 2011-2012 pioneers.

Just DO IT !
She is likely to qualify for a warranty replacement easily but she bought the car 4 months ago thinking it had a real 12 bars or at least 11 and a fraction and BOOM she has lost 3 bars in less than 4, 000 miles. We all know that is likely to have lost them bars before and the GOM was reset but that is not the issue, its the deception on the part of the dealer in So Cal.

the car was likely purchased at auction by Tacoma Nissan so its going to be tough to determine what they knew going in. But this illustrates an issue and to me its like rolling back the odometer...
Last edited by DaveinOlyWA on Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

adric22
Posts: 2488
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Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:28 am

braineo wrote:Thanks for sharing, that is why NISSAN must make it right for ALL model year 2011-2012 drivers. NISSAN must guarantee a new battery replacement with no regard to years nor mileage.
Do you realize what you just said? No regard to years or mileage? So if the car is 20 years old with 500,000 miles on it, they should still replace the battery?
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

GregH
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Location: Irvine, CA

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:42 am

The hysteresis on the "bars disappearing" is really slow and requires a number of drive/charge cycles at some critical capacity before the vehicle will lose a bar on the display.

So my guess is either one of two things happened here:

Somebody reset the BMS and it took a while for the bars to re-disappear.

or

The car started with a low 12 bars (say 56-58Ah) then sat in a moderate/warm climate for a lot of months without being driven.

As the car was driven the BMS slowly realized it was a lot lower in capacity and the bars fell off...

This happened to my car as I left it garaged at around 55.5Ah capacity for a few months this summer. As I started driving it again the Ah capacity kept dropping day by day getting as low as 53.8Ah before the 12th bar actually vanished.

And yes, this really blows for someone shopping for a used Leaf. Even with an aftermarket scan tool the BMS would have likely reported something in the 54-55Ah range when the car was delivered with 12 bars. Perhaps that at least would have been nice to know.. (i.e. 12 bars with 54Ah or 12 bars with 64Ah)
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Nubo
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:51 am

This is equivalent to rolling back the odometer and is one area where the law needs to catch up to the new technology so that consumers are protected and such fraud can be vigorously prosecuted.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14158
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:26 pm

GregH wrote:The hysteresis on the "bars disappearing" is really slow and requires a number of drive/charge cycles at some critical capacity before the vehicle will lose a bar on the display.

So my guess is either one of two things happened here:

Somebody reset the BMS and it took a while for the bars to re-disappear.
well aint that about obvious
or

The car started with a low 12 bars (say 56-58Ah) then sat in a moderate/warm climate for a lot of months without being driven.

As the car was driven the BMS slowly realized it was a lot lower in capacity and the bars fell off...
no...no...no... What we need is someone with a bit of time and search skills to dig up the history of VIN # 222 which I am pretty sure was one of the ones that posted CP losses in a thread about the subject.

I am not in a position to really do that right now but I am sure (as there always is) there is someone who knows the person I am talking about and can post a link?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14158
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:32 pm

^^^^^^^^
ah, FB comes thru


I had a SoCal 3 bar loser:

Car 222 omkar Irvine, CA
3 bars lost at 35 months (11/19/2013) / 33,700 miles
2 bars lost at 29 months (5/25/2013) / 29,500 miles
1 bar lost at 20 months (9/5/2012) / 19,000 miles
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 37#p349037" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 25,185 miles SOH 92.23%
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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abasile
Posts: 1922
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Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Degradation Issues with VIN 222. A MUST Read!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:50 pm

Good find! Intentionally resetting the BMS to obscure the battery capacity is every bit as bad as resetting an odometer. Since there could be legitimate reasons to reset the BMS, it really comes down to intent. That said, it should be the law that any seller of an EV either (1) make a good faith effort to provide a reasonable estimate of the true battery capacity, normally the reading reported by the car, or (2) disclose that the battery condition is unknown and/or incorrectly reported.

In this case everything should work out fine in the end, since that car should end up qualifying for a new battery under warranty. But with a higher mileage or older car that can't qualify for the warranty, the buyer could end up in a world of hurt.
adric22 wrote:
braineo wrote:Thanks for sharing, that is why NISSAN must make it right for ALL model year 2011-2012 drivers. NISSAN must guarantee a new battery replacement with no regard to years nor mileage.
Do you realize what you just said? No regard to years or mileage? So if the car is 20 years old with 500,000 miles on it, they should still replace the battery?
You have a point, but does anyone think a 2011/2012 LEAF battery is going to make it to 20 years or 500K miles? :lol:
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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