johnlocke
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:18 am

June update. 342 GID's 75.04AH SOH=94.42% Hx=81.67% 62347 total mi. 117418 mi on new battery. 15 DCFC and 331 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery continues to do better than the old one but May was exceptionally wet and cool. June is still relatively cool so far this year but the battery is holding up better than I expected. I'm down 6% from new in just under a year and at this rate the car will meet my needs for 3 more years but I'll probably sell or trade it in after I hit 100K. I've learned that 30 KWH Is more than adequate for my normal daily use but that 24 KWH is marginal and 20 KWH means an extra charge most days (5-10 KWH somewhere just to make sure I can make it home with some reserve). I'm sure that having to charge every day takes a toll on the battery even if it's mostly L2 charging. My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and 250 mile range or better. If I could get 300 miles of range then I could charge to 80% and drive for 3 days between charges.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

WetEV
Posts: 3129
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:32 pm

johnlocke wrote:I'm down 6% from new in just under a year and at this rate the car will meet my needs for 3 more years
The first 5% loss is usually faster than later loss.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

johnlocke
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:34 pm

Aug update. 337 GID's 73.81AH SOH=92.87% Hx=78.57% 65250 total mi. 20321 mi on new battery. 17 DCFC and 387 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery is still doing better than the first one. I'm down 7% from new in just over 13 months. That would put me down around 20% at 100K miles and 2 1/2 more years of operation. I would expect this battery to last about 5 years before it hits 8 bars. Although the range is adequate for now, I just put new tires on and took a small hit in mileage (5%). Doesn't seem like much but it adds up and cuts the range by 4-5 miles overall. I get uncomfortable when I have to run extra errands. I just need a bigger battery overall or one that doesn't degrade over time. 80% of original capacity is about as low as I can practically use without resorting to DCFC a couple of times a week while out in town. My expectation at this point is that I'll trade the Leaf in a couple of years for something with more range and better electronics.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

johnlocke
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:13 pm

Sept update. 333 GID's 72.97AH SOH=91.82% Hx=76.52% 66772 total mi. 24843 mi on new battery. 18 DCFC and 416 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery is still doing better than the first one. I'm down just over 8% from new in just over 14 months. That still puts me down around 20% at 100K miles and 2 more years of operation. This battery may last 4 more years before it hits 8 bars. Range is adequate for now but I get uncomfortable when I have to run extra errands. I find that I'm hitting the low battery warning once or twice a month now. At 80% usable capacity that's going to be happening every other day and I'll be hitting the chargers out in town regularly.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

johnlocke
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 pm

Oct update. 326 GID's 71.24AH, SOH=89.63%, Hx=71.99%, 68500 total mi. 23571 mi on new battery. 18 DCFC and 450 l2 charges on the new battery. Okay, the good news is that the new battery is holding up better than the old one, the bad news is that it's not a whole lot better. I have 15 months use on the new battery and am down by 10%. The old battery was down 10% after just 10 months of use and was down by 14% at 15 months. The cumulative mileage on both batteries was similar so my usage habits haven't changed. As it stands now I expect to be able to get 70000-80000 miles out of this battery before it hits 8 bars. That puts the car over the warranty limit so no third battery for me. Current trade-in value is around $7K according to several dealers so there's no point in buying a new battery. I might be able to get $10K from a private sale but still not much better.

I've looked at a Tesla III and at a Nissan Leaf +. Top end Leaf SV+ is pretty similar to a Standard + III and the costs are similar. The Leaf gets a bigger Rebate but there's no TMS and DCFC problems. The Leaf fits like an old shoe and I feel very comfortable in it but the battery worries me. The III is all whizzbang and sleek. It's a different idea of what a car is or could be. I find that I'm not entirely comfortable with just a touch screen. I like it mechanically and I might be able to get used to the lack of physical controls. Problem is neither car wows me and makes me say "I got to have one". The VW ID 4 is still a year out and I don't know if I want to wait for it.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

User avatar
jlv
Moderator
Posts: 1129
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:44 am

johnlocke wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 pm
I've looked at a Tesla III
FWIW, it's a Model 3, not a "III".
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
85K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

webeleafowners
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am

johnlocke wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 pm
Oct update. 326 GID's 71.24AH, SOH=89.63%, Hx=71.99%, 68500 total mi. 23571 mi on new battery. 18 DCFC and 450 l2 charges on the new battery. Okay, the good news is that the new battery is holding up better than the old one, the bad news is that it's not a whole lot better. I have 15 months use on the new battery and am down by 10%. The old battery was down 10% after just 10 months of use and was down by 14% at 15 months. The cumulative mileage on both batteries was similar so my usage habits haven't changed. As it stands now I expect to be able to get 70000-80000 miles out of this battery before it hits 8 bars. That puts the car over the warranty limit so no third battery for me. Current trade-in value is around $7K according to several dealers so there's no point in buying a new battery. I might be able to get $10K from a private sale but still not much better.

I've looked at a Tesla III and at a Nissan Leaf +. Top end Leaf SV+ is pretty similar to a Standard + III and the costs are similar. The Leaf gets a bigger Rebate but there's no TMS and DCFC problems. The Leaf fits like an old shoe and I feel very comfortable in it but the battery worries me. The III is all whizzbang and sleek. It's a different idea of what a car is or could be. I find that I'm not entirely comfortable with just a touch screen. I like it mechanically and I might be able to get used to the lack of physical controls. Problem is neither car wows me and makes me say "I got to have one". The VW ID 4 is still a year out and I don't know if I want to wait for it.
We went thru the same decision process. We loved our model 3 test drives and we spent over three hours in the car. Truly impressive. At the end of the day we wrote it out and went with the leaf. The model 3 has a lot going for it but personal needs won out. Here’s our list.

Nissan over Tesla.

- Hatchback
- Easier ingress and egress.
- Heated steering wheel for sore 56 year old hands
- Homelink standard. (Not really important for us)
- Heat pump so less energy use in mildly cold temps...like where we live in BC.
- E-Pedal. (One of our favourite things about the Leaf.
- all around 360 view camera display
- pretty much no vampire drain. Important for us as we leave the country for a month or more at a time without being able to plug in.
- rear cross traffic alert avoidance system.
- much quieter than the model 3.
- local service
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 697
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:45 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am
johnlocke wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 pm
Oct update. 326 GID's 71.24AH, SOH=89.63%, Hx=71.99%, 68500 total mi. 23571 mi on new battery. 18 DCFC and 450 l2 charges on the new battery. Okay, the good news is that the new battery is holding up better than the old one, the bad news is that it's not a whole lot better. I have 15 months use on the new battery and am down by 10%. The old battery was down 10% after just 10 months of use and was down by 14% at 15 months. The cumulative mileage on both batteries was similar so my usage habits haven't changed. As it stands now I expect to be able to get 70000-80000 miles out of this battery before it hits 8 bars. That puts the car over the warranty limit so no third battery for me. Current trade-in value is around $7K according to several dealers so there's no point in buying a new battery. I might be able to get $10K from a private sale but still not much better.

I've looked at a Tesla III and at a Nissan Leaf +. Top end Leaf SV+ is pretty similar to a Standard + III and the costs are similar. The Leaf gets a bigger Rebate but there's no TMS and DCFC problems. The Leaf fits like an old shoe and I feel very comfortable in it but the battery worries me. The III is all whizzbang and sleek. It's a different idea of what a car is or could be. I find that I'm not entirely comfortable with just a touch screen. I like it mechanically and I might be able to get used to the lack of physical controls. Problem is neither car wows me and makes me say "I got to have one". The VW ID 4 is still a year out and I don't know if I want to wait for it.
We went thru the same decision process. We loved our model 3 test drives and we spent over three hours in the car. Truly impressive. At the end of the day we wrote it out and went with the leaf. The model 3 has a lot going for it but personal needs won out. Here’s our list.

Nissan over Tesla.

- Hatchback
- Easier ingress and egress.
- Heated steering wheel for sore 56 year old hands
- Homelink standard. (Not really important for us)
- Heat pump so less energy use in mildly cold temps...like where we live in BC.
- E-Pedal. (One of our favourite things about the Leaf.
- all around 360 view camera display
- pretty much no vampire drain. Important for us as we leave the country for a month or more at a time without being able to plug in.
- rear cross traffic alert avoidance system.
- much quieter than the model 3.
- local service
Those are all good solid reasons. But since you live in BC, you'll never come close to see the battery degradation that johnlocke has painstakingly documented. An EV without some sort of thermal management system just isn't going to work for him.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

johnlocke
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:06 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:45 am
webeleafowners wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am
johnlocke wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 pm
Oct update. 326 GID's 71.24AH, SOH=89.63%, Hx=71.99%, 68500 total mi. 23571 mi on new battery. 18 DCFC and 450 l2 charges on the new battery. Okay, the good news is that the new battery is holding up better than the old one, the bad news is that it's not a whole lot better. I have 15 months use on the new battery and am down by 10%. The old battery was down 10% after just 10 months of use and was down by 14% at 15 months. The cumulative mileage on both batteries was similar so my usage habits haven't changed. As it stands now I expect to be able to get 70000-80000 miles out of this battery before it hits 8 bars. That puts the car over the warranty limit so no third battery for me. Current trade-in value is around $7K according to several dealers so there's no point in buying a new battery. I might be able to get $10K from a private sale but still not much better.

I've looked at a Tesla III and at a Nissan Leaf +. Top end Leaf SV+ is pretty similar to a Standard + III and the costs are similar. The Leaf gets a bigger Rebate but there's no TMS and DCFC problems. The Leaf fits like an old shoe and I feel very comfortable in it but the battery worries me. The III is all whizzbang and sleek. It's a different idea of what a car is or could be. I find that I'm not entirely comfortable with just a touch screen. I like it mechanically and I might be able to get used to the lack of physical controls. Problem is neither car wows me and makes me say "I got to have one". The VW ID 4 is still a year out and I don't know if I want to wait for it.
We went thru the same decision process. We loved our model 3 test drives and we spent over three hours in the car. Truly impressive. At the end of the day we wrote it out and went with the leaf. The model 3 has a lot going for it but personal needs won out. Here’s our list.

Nissan over Tesla.

- Hatchback
- Easier ingress and egress.
- Heated steering wheel for sore 56 year old hands
- Homelink standard. (Not really important for us)
- Heat pump so less energy use in mildly cold temps...like where we live in BC.
- E-Pedal. (One of our favourite things about the Leaf.
- all around 360 view camera display
- pretty much no vampire drain. Important for us as we leave the country for a month or more at a time without being able to plug in.
- rear cross traffic alert avoidance system.
- much quieter than the model 3.
- local service
Those are all good solid reasons. But since you live in BC, you'll never come close to see the battery degradation that johnlocke has painstakingly documented. An EV without some sort of thermal management system just isn't going to work for him.
In the end as much as I like the Leaf I have to rule it out. The lack of TMS for the battery is the killer. Slow multiple fast charges aren't really a problem as I probably won't use the car for cross country trips. The larger battery means fewer charges for a given distance and a good chance that the battery sits at 40 to 70% most of the time rather than fully charged waiting for the next trip. Even so, I still worry about battery life and a lease is nearly as much as buying outright with the mileage I put on a car. With the 62 KWH battery, I'm pretty sure I'd make it past 100K and the warranty but I 'm not sure about how much further it would go. I usually drive a car for 200,000+ miles before I get a new one and I just don't think the Leaf is capable of that. It would still run but the degradation of the battery toward the end would be terrible. Nissan won't sell me an upgraded battery or provide a reasonable cost replacement either so when the battery goes you have to junk the car. Resale value is terrible too.

The Model 3 solves my concerns about the battery, promises to last longer than I'm likely to drive it, and has good resale value as well. I can update the software and even add features like FSD later if I want to. It's not a hatchback though and I'm not in love with the control system. Since I'm getting older, there may come a time when FSD is something I need or just want. I can upgrade the Model 3 but the Leaf doesn't even have the option for that. Tesla has already stated that the battery will be repairable and I expect that it will be able to be upgraded (at some additional cost) as well.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

webeleafowners
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2016 30 kWh Battery data

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:02 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:45 am
webeleafowners wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am
johnlocke wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:48 pm
Oct update. 326 GID's 71.24AH, SOH=89.63%, Hx=71.99%, 68500 total mi. 23571 mi on new battery. 18 DCFC and 450 l2 charges on the new battery. Okay, the good news is that the new battery is holding up better than the old one, the bad news is that it's not a whole lot better. I have 15 months use on the new battery and am down by 10%. The old battery was down 10% after just 10 months of use and was down by 14% at 15 months. The cumulative mileage on both batteries was similar so my usage habits haven't changed. As it stands now I expect to be able to get 70000-80000 miles out of this battery before it hits 8 bars. That puts the car over the warranty limit so no third battery for me. Current trade-in value is around $7K according to several dealers so there's no point in buying a new battery. I might be able to get $10K from a private sale but still not much better.

I've looked at a Tesla III and at a Nissan Leaf +. Top end Leaf SV+ is pretty similar to a Standard + III and the costs are similar. The Leaf gets a bigger Rebate but there's no TMS and DCFC problems. The Leaf fits like an old shoe and I feel very comfortable in it but the battery worries me. The III is all whizzbang and sleek. It's a different idea of what a car is or could be. I find that I'm not entirely comfortable with just a touch screen. I like it mechanically and I might be able to get used to the lack of physical controls. Problem is neither car wows me and makes me say "I got to have one". The VW ID 4 is still a year out and I don't know if I want to wait for it.
We went thru the same decision process. We loved our model 3 test drives and we spent over three hours in the car. Truly impressive. At the end of the day we wrote it out and went with the leaf. The model 3 has a lot going for it but personal needs won out. Here’s our list.

Nissan over Tesla.

- Hatchback
- Easier ingress and egress.
- Heated steering wheel for sore 56 year old hands
- Homelink standard. (Not really important for us)
- Heat pump so less energy use in mildly cold temps...like where we live in BC.
- E-Pedal. (One of our favourite things about the Leaf.
- all around 360 view camera display
- pretty much no vampire drain. Important for us as we leave the country for a month or more at a time without being able to plug in.
- rear cross traffic alert avoidance system.
- much quieter than the model 3.
- local service
Those are all good solid reasons. But since you live in BC, you'll never come close to see the battery degradation that johnlocke has painstakingly documented. An EV without some sort of thermal management system just isn't going to work for him.
Yah I get that. We just don’t have that degradation worry in this climate. Honestly if there is any degradation in our 2016 SV I don’t notice it. A full charge (which we do about once per month fir a certain trip) still yields around 200 km on the GOM. (Speed limits are slower here).

Cheers.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

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