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eatsleafsandshoots
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm
- Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2013
- Location: Denver, CO
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
You'd be insane to buy a passively cooled EV at full price after the countless battery debacles documented on this forum. Once it gets down to the sub 10k range like my new Leaf was, I might be game.
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LeftieBiker
- Moderator
- Posts: 13738
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
- Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
- Location: Upstate New York, US
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
If I buy a passively cooled 38kwh Leaf and it degrades as fast as my 4/2013 Leaf, I'll be fine with it. Not needing the top 30% of range helps a lot.eatsleafsandshoots wrote:You'd be insane to buy a passively cooled EV at full price after the countless battery debacles documented on this forum. Once it gets down to the sub 10k range like my new Leaf was, I might be game.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
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ydnas7
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 am
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
its looks like 40 kWh (38.4 useable) for LEAF 2
and
60kWh for future Rogue sport EV.
Oh well
and
60kWh for future Rogue sport EV.
Oh well
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GetOffYourGas
- Posts: 2058
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
- Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
- Location: Syracuse, NY
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
Going passively cooled would certainly be a mistake for hotter markets. For me, it has worked out just fine with my original 2012 battery losing about 20% in 5 years. That's right where they told me it should be in 2012 when I bought the car.
The issue for me is that doubling the range doesn't make a significant difference in usability of the car. At least not without more charging infrastructure. It just means that I can go multiple days without charging and add maybe 3-4 medium-distance trips per year. I really need 2.5-3x the range to use what little QC infrastructure that does exist, and I am willing to pay for it. I'm still holding out hope that a 60kWh option will be available within a year.
The issue for me is that doubling the range doesn't make a significant difference in usability of the car. At least not without more charging infrastructure. It just means that I can go multiple days without charging and add maybe 3-4 medium-distance trips per year. I really need 2.5-3x the range to use what little QC infrastructure that does exist, and I am willing to pay for it. I'm still holding out hope that a 60kWh option will be available within a year.
~Brian
EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier
EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier
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jhm614
- Posts: 920
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:48 pm
- Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
- Leaf Number: 000493
- Location: Arlington, TX
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
Nice info on the 60kWh for future Rogue Sport EV, I haven't read that one yet. Do you have any more details?ydnas7 wrote:its looks like 40 kWh (38.4 useable) for LEAF 2
and
60kWh for future Rogue sport EV.
Oh well
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.
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DaveinOlyWA
- Posts: 14385
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
- Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
- Leaf Number: 319862
- Location: Olympia, WA
- Contact: Website
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
The reality is that I see the need for cooled packs but I am COMPLETELY unwilling to pay for that. make it an option. there is really no other way to put it. When you live in "that" kind of climate, there is trade offs to everything.
Right now I am in the middle of testing my 30 kwh pack for heat tolerance. Sure its tough here (especially this morning when it was 49º) but I have been north of 125º a few dozen times including maintaining a temp of more than 90º nearly 24/7 for 8 days straight. (that was a LOT of driving and charging!)
Now there is a lot to say about heating up the pack verses driving around in hot pack all the time for months at a time but... But several in my area saw heavy degradation from nothing more than a lot of fast charging so I think that in a few months, I will have a good picture of just how much progress Nissan is making towards a true heat tolerant battery.
But for nearly all of us, the real issue comes with multiple fast charges. The faster profile of the 30 kwh pack does come with trade offs including MUCH higher temps than I ever saw in a 24 kwh pack but charging to 20+ KW to over 90% SOC does that.
But a bigger pack means a 2 or 3 charge day is not likely unless you are crossing time zones. For me? LOL!!! I be damned if I am gonna pay for something then not use it!
Right now I am in the middle of testing my 30 kwh pack for heat tolerance. Sure its tough here (especially this morning when it was 49º) but I have been north of 125º a few dozen times including maintaining a temp of more than 90º nearly 24/7 for 8 days straight. (that was a LOT of driving and charging!)
Now there is a lot to say about heating up the pack verses driving around in hot pack all the time for months at a time but... But several in my area saw heavy degradation from nothing more than a lot of fast charging so I think that in a few months, I will have a good picture of just how much progress Nissan is making towards a true heat tolerant battery.
But for nearly all of us, the real issue comes with multiple fast charges. The faster profile of the 30 kwh pack does come with trade offs including MUCH higher temps than I ever saw in a 24 kwh pack but charging to 20+ KW to over 90% SOC does that.
But a bigger pack means a 2 or 3 charge day is not likely unless you are crossing time zones. For me? LOL!!! I be damned if I am gonna pay for something then not use it!
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 2640.9 mi, 99.37% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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eatsleafsandshoots
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm
- Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2013
- Location: Denver, CO
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
I don't see why this is still an issue, Chevy figured it out long ago and I got a used Volt for a reasonable price. Active cooling is necessary unless you're OK with the Leaf being a throwaway car, and it doesn't need to be expensive.
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NavyCuda
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:14 pm
- Delivery Date: 24 Jun 2015
- Leaf Number: 329051
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
Active cooling is a band aid solution.
The chemistry needs to be improved so cooling isn't needed. Once the cooling crutch is used it's hard to get off of.
I applaud Nissan for making the right, but difficult choice.
If you're in a climate that the Leaf doesn't work as well in, by all means buy a Garbage Motors Bolt.
The chemistry needs to be improved so cooling isn't needed. Once the cooling crutch is used it's hard to get off of.
I applaud Nissan for making the right, but difficult choice.
If you're in a climate that the Leaf doesn't work as well in, by all means buy a Garbage Motors Bolt.
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DaveinOlyWA
- Posts: 14385
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
- Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
- Leaf Number: 319862
- Location: Olympia, WA
- Contact: Website
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
This is EXACTLY Nissan's stance on the issue as it was relayed to us several years ago (LAB)NavyCuda wrote:Active cooling is a band aid solution.
The chemistry needs to be improved so cooling isn't needed. Once the cooling crutch is used it's hard to get off of.
I applaud Nissan for making the right, but difficult choice.
If you're in a climate that the Leaf doesn't work as well in, by all means buy a Garbage Motors Bolt.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 2640.9 mi, 99.37% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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NavyCuda
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:14 pm
- Delivery Date: 24 Jun 2015
- Leaf Number: 329051
Re: Predicting Range & Value of LEAF Gen 2
Good, Nissan is smart to take the risk of aggregating some vocal end-users in order to have superior technology in the long run.DaveinOlyWA wrote: This is EXACTLY Nissan's stance on the issue as it was relayed to us several years ago (LAB)