Eddie16
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:06 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Aug 2020
Leaf Number: 312338
Contact: Twitter

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Possible, but unlikely! For those of us who are not DIY experts, putting a healthy
traction battery in a Nissan Leaf is like listening to The Man of La Mancha:
"Dream the Impossible Dream"!

NissanLeafBatteryReplacement.com lists independent Leaf battery businesses
in the USA. They are in Washington, Oregon, Caifornia, Texas, Massachusetts.
There are no independent Leaf battery businesses between the coasts, with
the exception of the Texas shop near Dallas.

The Nissan dealer network can provide batteries and installation.
But is any Leaf worth it? The quote I got from a Denver-area dealer is
$13,500 to procure and install a 40kwh battery. Given the experience
I've had with the 30kwh battery in my 2016 Leaf, I won't trust nissanusa
to the tune of $337/kwh installed.
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 18701
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

I understand where you are coming from - the 'Lettuce Pack' is the second worst battery that Nissan ever made. I might actually consider spending that $13k, though - if I had a nice Leaf already, with 80% charge option.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Eddie16 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:17 pm Possible, but unlikely! For those of us who are not DIY experts, putting a healthy
traction battery in a Nissan Leaf is like listening to The Man of La Mancha:
"Dream the Impossible Dream"!

NissanLeafBatteryReplacement.com lists independent Leaf battery businesses
in the USA. They are in Washington, Oregon, Caifornia, Texas, Massachusetts.
There are no independent Leaf battery businesses between the coasts, with
the exception of the Texas shop near Dallas.

The Nissan dealer network can provide batteries and installation.
But is any Leaf worth it? The quote I got from a Denver-area dealer is
$13,500 to procure and install a 40kwh battery. Given the experience
I've had with the 30kwh battery in my 2016 Leaf, I won't trust nissanusa
to the tune of $337/kwh installed.
HUGE difference between the 30 and 40 kwh pack and realize the 30 kwh pack was unfairly denigrated. The vitriol should have been aimed at Nissan programmers who made the mistake but in retrospect, the did do well in upgrading to the 40 kwh pack.

But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 25,047 mi, 92.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eddie16
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:06 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Aug 2020
Leaf Number: 312338
Contact: Twitter

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Eddie16 wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:51 pm DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?
After reading your previous posts, it seems some clarification is in order. First off, considering that you didn't include the red bars in your first post, that means that when you first bought the leaf used (back in 2019 with 29k miles), it was actually showing 12-bars. Which means it most likely JUST had the BMS reset applied, which is why the dealership told you that it had already been done.

The fact that you've lost 2 bars (post-BMS reset) after just driving ~6k miles means that this current state is the _actual_ health of the battery pack. The BMS reset doesn't repair the health of the pack, it only corrects a mis-reading of the actual pack health. So it lost those two capacity bars over the span of 35k miles (not just the couple years you've had the car). So although 35k miles for a 2-bar loser sounds high for Colorado, it would actually be "normal" if that car had spent significant time in AZ, NM, Southern CA/TX, etc when it was with the previous owner.

As to the "elaboration". Our (putting words in DaveinOlyWA's mouth) understanding is that the dealerships won't even consider doing a pack upgrade. Yours is the first I've heard of where they would even quote a price to carry out the upgrade. The price doesn't sound out of line for a brand new 40kwh pack, but it's not worth it (you could sell your current leaf and buy a newer 2018 leaf that already has the 40kwh pack).
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 18701
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

A small correction of the above post: a BMS reset is just that: a reboot of the Battery Management System that clears its stored data about the pack, forcing it to relearn it. It is not the BMS update software patch, although part of installing that patch involves doing a BMS reset.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
goldbrick
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Eddie16 wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:51 pm It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.
30kWh packs have an 8 year/100k mile warranty. If the car loses 4 bars within those limits Nissan will replace the pack.
DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Eddie16 wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:51 pm DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?
Former policy; upgrading 24 kwh packs to a higher capacity.

I obviously made that statement based the assumption that a 24 kwh pack was involved and not a 30 kwh pack and your rebuttal reinforces my assumption (check bolded) when you state the degradation warranty on a 24 kwh pack. The 30 kwh pack must lose its 4th within 8 years or 100,000 miles.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 25,047 mi, 92.12% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eddie16
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:06 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Aug 2020
Leaf Number: 312338
Contact: Twitter

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

Thanks for your input. It sounds possible that a BMS reset done just before selling a Leaf, can camouflage the actual state of the battery. I have reason to believe the car was originally sold new in CO. However CO is now having average summertime temps considerably higher than 30 years ago, so driving this car hard, and parking it in the sun on hot asphalt at work, could probably do damage. Can't afford a Tesla, so I'll continue to drive it until it loses more bars ... DON'T want to go back to ICE!

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:42 pm
Eddie16 wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:51 pm DaveinOlyWA wrote:

>But not important. Need elaboration on this offer from your dealer. This would be completely against Nissan's "former?" >policy for pack availability and upgrades. Would also say a lot about their faith in the Gen two chemistry.

Curious about what you mean by "elaboration". The 30kwh pack in question lost two of its 10 white bars, somewhere around 35K miles. The firmware upgrade which supposedly fixes some 30kwh packs, did nothing. It was my understanding that Nissan won't replace a pack on their dime, unless the pack loses 4 bars before the car reaches 60K miles.

What had you heard about Nissan's policy for pack availability and upgrades? The service person didn't say anything to me about policies. All she gave me was a take-it-or-leave-it offer to pay $13,500 for a 40kwh replacement. She had no interest in explaining to me why the pack lost bars at the (fairly low) mileage of 35K. She seemed to be just as surprised as I was, that a replacement pack is that expensive.

I have no idea of what to expect from Nissan. I've never owned any Nissan vehicle before. I have heard that Nissan has been running in the red in recent years, so I don't expect them to go out of their way, financially, to support owners. The fact that they don't seem to be interested in this failure, makes me think that maybe Nissan no longer considers the Leaf an important part of their product line. Perhaps they now consider it a liability?
After reading your previous posts, it seems some clarification is in order. First off, considering that you didn't include the red bars in your first post, that means that when you first bought the leaf used (back in 2019 with 29k miles), it was actually showing 12-bars. Which means it most likely JUST had the BMS reset applied, which is why the dealership told you that it had already been done.

The fact that you've lost 2 bars (post-BMS reset) after just driving ~6k miles means that this current state is the _actual_ health of the battery pack. The BMS reset doesn't repair the health of the pack, it only corrects a mis-reading of the actual pack health. So it lost those two capacity bars over the span of 35k miles (not just the couple years you've had the car). So although 35k miles for a 2-bar loser sounds high for Colorado, it would actually be "normal" if that car had spent significant time in AZ, NM, Southern CA/TX, etc when it was with the previous owner.

As to the "elaboration". Our (putting words in DaveinOlyWA's mouth) understanding is that the dealerships won't even consider doing a pack upgrade. Yours is the first I've heard of where they would even quote a price to carry out the upgrade. The price doesn't sound out of line for a brand new 40kwh pack, but it's not worth it (you could sell your current leaf and buy a newer 2018 leaf that already has the 40kwh pack).
alozzy
Posts: 2428
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Upgrades are very possible

FWIW, you can use the original sales sticker trick (details on this site) if you really want to know where your LEAF was first sold when new.

CPO website: http://cpo.nissanusa.com/en/search-inventory

The trick, to insert your own VIN: viewtopic.php?t=23716&start=40#p535946
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

Return to “Enhancement / Change Requests”