CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

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CanuckEVDriver

Active member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
31
Location
Ottawa, Ontario
Just noticed that a new public EV charging station is about to go live near me (Electrify Canada, Canadian Tire, Coventry Road, Ottawa).

They have 4 stations set up, with 7 CCS connectors and 1 CHAdeMo connector. (There'll be a lineup of LEAFs waiting to charge, but quite a few empty CCS spots)

Does this mean that EV charging companies have decided on which connector to go with?

I wonder if Nissan is considering changing their charging port on the LEAF? Or maybe some kind of CCS-to-CHAdeMO adapter?
 
You can find Chademo to ccs, but not the other way.

It’s been a topic of discussion over the years.

Leaf and Outlander still sell in enough quantities to keep Chademo installs increasing, though EA weights heavily toward CCS.

EVGo, Greenlots, etc. are more balanced.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
You can find Chademo to ccs, but not the other way.
Oh? Where? I've not seen one, and I looked, as Chademo has better geographic coverage in Washington and Oregon.

Both basically require a box that emulates a CCS car on one side and a Chademo charger on the other side, or vise versa.

It would be far easier to have a car with both CCS and Chademo connectors.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
You can find Chademo to ccs, but not the other way.


Is that because it is technically more difficult to make an adapter from CCS to Chademo
or just not enough of a market to develop and sell it?

This could be a real trip saver with all those EA sites with only 1 Chadmo and multiple CCS chargers.

I bought a TeslaTap --- J1772 addapter for use on the Tesla Destination Chargers found at many Hotels now.
Lets you do your charging while you sleep and start out with a full charge from the Hotel --- works great.
 
CanuckEVDriver said:
Just noticed that a new public EV charging station is about to go live near me (Electrify Canada, Canadian Tire, Coventry Road, Ottawa).

They have 4 stations set up, with 7 CCS connectors and 1 CHAdeMo connector. (There'll be a lineup of LEAFs waiting to charge, but quite a few empty CCS spots)

Does this mean that EV charging companies have decided on which connector to go with?

I wonder if Nissan is considering changing their charging port on the LEAF? Or maybe some kind of CCS-to-CHAdeMO adapter?

That’s just because it is Electrify Canada which is owned by Volkswagen. All the other networks tend to be evenly weighted between Chademo and CCS. At least here the vast majority of EV’s sold are Chademo compatible. Namely because the vast majority of EV’s sold here are Tesla’s and Leafs.

We have two EV’s in our driveway. Both are Chademo compatible. From being part of both the Leaf and Tesla communities it is surprising how many households have these two EV’s in their driveway, especially around here.

49787005622_27ac0b7b96_k.jpg


In this Province coordination of EV fast chargers is headed up for and partially sponsored by the government although various networks and companies are involved in the actual installations including 2 gas companies, Shell and Petro Can. I doubt the province would sign on to any installation that excluded a format used by the majority of EV’s sold.

Jmho.
 
leaf16 said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
You can find Chademo to ccs, but not the other way.


Is that because it is technically more difficult to make an adapter from CCS to Chademo
or just not enough of a market to develop and sell it?

This could be a real trip saver with all those EA sites with only 1 Chadmo and multiple CCS chargers.

I bought a TeslaTap --- J1772 addapter for use on the Tesla Destination Chargers found at many Hotels now.
Lets you do your charging while you sleep and start out with a full charge from the Hotel --- works great.

We have one of those Tesla Taps in the leaf. We haven't used it a lot but it has been handy a half dozen times and a life saver once or twice.
 
The adaptor's (Chademo to CCS) I have seen have been on Alibaba. I don't know of anyone who has bought one yet.

In spite of the banter, if you look through Plug share logs, many Tesla owners enjoy use of Chademo stations, especially in some more rural places.

Actually a Chademo only station (no CCS) just went up in South Dakota. It kind of makes sense as between Tesla, Leaf, Outlander (and a few older EVs) you get the widest group of potential customers.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
The adaptor's (Chademo to CCS) I have seen have been on Alibaba. I don't know of anyone who has bought one yet.

In spite of the banter, if you look through Plug share logs, many Tesla owners enjoy use of Chademo stations, especially in some more rural places.

Actually a Chademo only station (no CCS) just went up in South Dakota. It kind of makes sense as between Tesla, Leaf, Outlander (and a few older EVs) you get the widest group of potential customers.

Exactly. Looking at the pics of people who update Plugshare. Many are Tesla owners using the adapter. In BC, 4 years ago there were about 21 Chademo/CCS stations and 15 or so Superchargers. Now there are closer to 160 Chademo/CCS stations and maybe 17 or so Superchargers. If you drive a Tesla in this province you are pretty much restricted to the Trans Canada highway. If you have a Chademo adapter you have a significantly bigger area you can cover. We bought our Chademo adapter before we bought the Tesla just because of this.
 
This is my crazy talk, but I think Nissan should talk to Tesla about joining the super charger network.

It would give the optics that Tesla is not just a walled garden, and honestly, Leaf owners are some of the best Tesla customers out there. sure, keep the Chademo's at 50-75 kWh, and let them come, charge, and pine for a M3 or a MY. Adding the additional station cord and payment would be trivial for Tesla to accomplish.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
This is my crazy talk, but I think Nissan should talk to Tesla about joining the super charger network.

It would give the optics that Tesla is not just a walled garden, and honestly, Leaf owners are some of the best Tesla customers out there. sure, keep the Chademo's at 50-75 kWh, and let them come, charge, and pine for a M3 or a MY. Adding the additional station cord and payment would be trivial for Tesla to accomplish.

Great idea Doug. Now we just have to convince Nissan to spend the money. Eeeek.
 
Thank you all for the comments. It seems that the trend of charging stations are going towards more power being pumped into the car's battery to speed up the charging time.

Originally, L3 chargers were pumping out 20-50 kW. And with this, most manufacturers were "designing" their own power connectors (which is why we now have 3 variations of connectors (CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla). Standardization was a bit slow in the EV world.

Now L3 chargers are being built that can pump out up to 240 kW. Obviously, only newer car batteries can take advantage of the higher powered chargers. (ie: older LEAFs, before 2019 will max out at 50 kW, the newer LEAFS with the 62 kWh batteries will be able to take more current.

I haven't been able to find it yet (might find it today, nothing else to do :? ), it appears that the CHAdeMO connector is not designed for more than 100 kW? (If anyone can verify this, thank you)

Apparently the CCS and Tesla "supercharger" connectors can handle the higher current (once installed in existing stations).

Personally, I prefer the Tesla designed connector, it's smaller and my wife says easier to connect than the current CCS/J1772 or CHAdeMO/J1772 set ups. I only wish that car manufacturers standardize on the position of the charging port. The front seems to make more sense, as you can just drive up to the charger.
 
CanuckEVDriver said:
Thank you all for the comments. It seems that the trend of charging stations are going towards more power being pumped into the car's battery to speed up the charging time.

Originally, L3 chargers were pumping out 20-50 kW. And with this, most manufacturers were "designing" their own power connectors (which is why we now have 3 variations of connectors (CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla). Standardization was a bit slow in the EV world.

Now L3 chargers are being built that can pump out up to 240 kW. Obviously, only newer car batteries can take advantage of the higher powered chargers. (ie: older LEAFs, before 2019 will max out at 50 kW, the newer LEAFS with the 62 kWh batteries will be able to take more current.

I haven't been able to find it yet (might find it today, nothing else to do :? ), it appears that the CHAdeMO connector is not designed for more than 100 kW? (If anyone can verify this, thank you)

Apparently the CCS and Tesla "supercharger" connectors can handle the higher current (once installed in existing stations).

Personally, I prefer the Tesla designed connector, it's smaller and my wife says easier to connect than the current CCS/J1772 or CHAdeMO/J1772 set ups. I only wish that car manufacturers standardize on the position of the charging port. The front seems to make more sense, as you can just drive up to the charger.

I believe Chademo can charge up to 400 Kw. Not an expert.
 
CanuckEVDriver said:
And with this, most manufacturers were "designing" their own power connectors (which is why we now have 3 variations of connectors (CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla). Standardization was a bit slow in the EV world.

No, that is just Tesla. Tesla has complete control of the connector and everything related to it. Network effect giving Tesla more market power.


Chademo: Power company and several car makers in Japan set up a standard in 2005. Any company can be a member.

https://www.chademo.com/membership/members/

Standard published. Any car that meets the standard should be able to charge at any charger that meets the standard.

Likewise CCS.
 
Here is the post from the Chademo site:

CHAdeMO Association’s latest protocol, CHAdeMO 3.0 (to be published in a few months’ time), will achieve hardware harmonisation with China’s GB/T (Project ChaoJi). This means there will be a new plug (much smaller and lighter than the current CHAdeMO or GB/T), which will be backward compatible with both current GB/T and CHAdeMO vehicles and chargers. We are happy to be part of the driving force towards the harmonisation of standards, while protecting the interest of the current EV users and infrastructure stakeholders.

Chademo and GB/T are already merging, and will likely continue to dominate Asia.

Even thought Chademo has been declared dead for Europe, thousands more still going into market there.

https://www.chademo.com/enel-x-pushes-forward-eu-high-power-charging-infrastructure-projects/
 
WetEV said:
No, that is just Tesla. Tesla has complete control of the connector and everything related to it. Network effect giving Tesla more market power.
Tesla in Europe originally used the standard Mennekes type 2 connector (but DC in addition to AC), and they've now moved to CCS Combo. It would be nice if they did that here, but it's obviously not going to happen at this point.

DougWantsALeaf said:
This is my crazy talk, but I think Nissan should talk to Tesla about joining the super charger network.
... keep the Chademo's at 50-75 kWh, and let them come, charge, and pine for a M3 or a MY. Adding the additional station cord and payment would be trivial for Tesla to accomplish.
Tesla adding CHAdeMO connectors at SuperChargers? :lol:

Hint: There are enough Tesla cars using the SuCs now; they need to build more just to support them. The last thing they want is a LEAF sitting there taking up a SuC stall charging at 45kWh for an hour. There is no value in that.
 
jlv said:
WetEV said:
No, that is just Tesla. Tesla has complete control of the connector and everything related to it. Network effect giving Tesla more market power.
Tesla adding CHAdeMO connectors at SuperChargers? :lol:
Exactly. How can Musk hope to become the first Trillionare if he can't make Tesla a monopoly? Musk needs the network effect.
 
There are two cars for sale in the US with CHAdeMO. One of them is a plug in hybrid SUV that nobody buys (Outlander) and the other is the Leaf which is a slow seller.

CCS cars on sale in 2020:

Audi etron
BMW i3
Chevy Bolt
Ford Mustang Mach E
Honda Clarity
Hyundai Ioniq
Hyundai Kona
Jaguar I-Pace
Mercedes EQC
Mini Cooper EV
Kia Niro
Polestar 2
Porsche Taycan
VW eGolf
Volvo XC40 Recharge

More CCS are coming for 2021 and 2022.

CHAdeMO is super dead in the US.
 
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