RapmasterD
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2017

Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:14 pm

During the last three years, I've eagerly awaited the end of my lease period so I can buy a used Bolt with enough range to enable me to drive a LOT more on a highway, AND with far less concern about battery degradation over time.

And then it hit. COVID! My wife's 2013 Lexus RX350 sits virtually un-driven as she now works from home. I don't work, and I haven't used the Leaf much during the entire lease period except for local errands. Because I can't confidently drive the Leaf from the SF Mid Peninsula (~28-30 miles south of San Francisco) to the North Bay and back...well. I don't. And now, even if I want to drive afar, I can use my wife's car. Alas, I still don't, because nowadays I have a young child to 'monitor' during the day.

And yet I like the Leaf - its dramatically outdated stylings inside and out, the super quiet ride, my love for Mother Earth, et cetera.

Total money spent on lease, including taxes, is around $10,500. But it's dead money, literally. as I made my last payment six days ago,.

The Sinker: Unfortunately, because I didn't think I was buying the SV, I didn't treat the battery well. Lots of little QC charges, lots of keeping it well above 80%, rarely letting it go below 40%. No, I've never seen more than six bars of heat on it, except for maybe once (I think). But I live in five and six bar country.

I can buy the car, with the seemingly unavoidable dealer bologna juice, for $10,700 not including taxes and documentation fees.

My question is whether I've trashed the battery too much and simply drive it too little, thus provoking an ever more rapid decline in battery health. I can either buy it out, or return it and use my wife's car until she goes back into an office MANY months from now (Jan 2021 at the earliest). I'd rather drive the Leaf than the gas guzzling land yacht. Yet it, too, needs to be driven a minimum amount each week...

I don't know my buttocks from my elbows compared to most of you peeps, but I did buy Leaf Spy Pro and a dongle today.

ODO: 8,710
AHr: 71.37
SOH: 89.79%
Hx: 73.28%
98 QCs and 222 L1/L2s
133 GIDs (37.3%)

I'd love to hold it for a year or two, but not if you folks think I've got too much financial downside once I sell it to a Carvana-type business. So, do I buy it or leave it?

Thank you!

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15716
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:25 pm

Do you see any loss of range? Does the dash display still show 12 of the little capacity bars right next to the charge bars? If you still have 12 bars then you still have at least 85% of the original capacity left. If, OTOH, you have lost multiple capacity bars, then your car may eventually qualify for a free 40kwh (that's right) under the 8 year/100,000 mile battery capacity warranty.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1639
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:31 am

Your battery stats from LeafSpy are actually decent, given your location.

Did you get the PC630 software fix for the battery installed?

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/ ... 3-9999.pdf

If not, then your SOH value, as reported by LeafSpy, will likely improve after having that update installed. Having said that, based on your AHr and SOH values, your LEAF likely already has the "good" firmware version:

Image

Personally, I would gamble and keep your LEAF as there's a good chance that you'll be able to upgrade it to a 40 kWh pack (or if you get lucky a 62 kWh pack) in the near future for a reasonable cost.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15716
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:48 am

Those stats were there from the start? Damn, I'm getting old. Anyway, further: if you haven't had the BMS update then the battery info indicates that you have a good pack. It likely won't degrade enough to get a new warranty replacement, but it should only degrade at a modest rate - especially if you try to keep the SOC no higher than 60-80% unless more is needed.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RapmasterD
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2017

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:56 pm

Thank you for the responses!

Yes, I see 12 bars.

Yes, I did the BMS upgrade more than a year ago at Nissan of Burlingame (CA).

I’m guessing my experience validates that battery aging, alone, is ‘a thing.’ But upon further reading of others’ experiences, it seems the deterioration is average - not terrible, and certainly not anything to brag about.

I’m therefore inclined to hang onto the car, pending any further, “You CRAZY!” comments.

Again, thanks.
Last edited by RapmasterD on Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cwerdna
Posts: 11303
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:05 pm

Just a data point, here's an idea of what used Bolts are going for now, since you said you wanted to buy a used Bolt: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchres ... 1&zc=94010. Yes, the cheap ones are high mileage.

Your battery's in good shape. I'm not sure you'll win the lottery and get a new one before the 8 year/100K capacity warranty expires unless you send the car in the summers to Arizona for "heat treatment".

I can tell you that Bolt's (238 miles on '17 to '19) range is a GAME changer vs. my 11 bar '13 Leaf. Roundtrips of over 120 miles almost all highway are no issue.

Also, allegedly per viewtopic.php?p=586161#p586161, Chevy of Watsonville has '20 Bolts (259 mile EPA range rating) allegedly had some (when I checked yesterday) starting under $25K for an LT (lower trim) with only DC fast charging and no other options.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RapmasterD
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2017

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:15 pm

Thanks for this!

Yes, after the somewhat spartan Leaf, I had been considering the Premier trim of a 2017 off-lease Bolt (Leather! BOSE! LED headlights!!). Those seem to be offered in the low 20s range around here, for a car with mileage in the low 20k-ish range.

And yes, I’m inclined to agree that my Leaf won’t likely qualify for the batterywarranty unless there is a nearby nuclear explosion. But I’d love to be wrong on that one!

cwerdna
Posts: 11303
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:21 pm

Actually, the Bolt has HID (Xenon) headlights, not LEDs. I can't speak to '17 with accuracy since I never had one (rented for a day and had test driven '17 and maybe another year before that) but at least on '19, Bose stereo came as part of the infotainment package (only available on Premier trim). I think that's the case w/'17. And yes, at least on '19 Premier, leather is standard.

Although the bumper to bumper (basic) warranty on Bolt is only 3 years/36K miles, the EV system, powertrain and HV battery are covered by an 8 year/100K warranty (see page 321 of https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gm ... Manual.pdf).

Also, if you care about CA HOV stickers, maybe you want to get one from outside CA that has never been registered in CA so that you can get HOV stickers for it.

If you check Plugshare, you'll also notice quite a bit of CCS (SAE Combo) infrastructure. But, if you want to use it, you'll need to get a Bolt with optional DC FC inlet. It's not standard on either trim. It needs to have the orange flap covering two holes (visual aid at https://insideevs.com/news/330621/chevr ... ow-online/). I haven't read the story but ignore 80 kW references. Bolt DC FCing maxes out at 55 kW and will start tapering at around 50 to 55% SoC. It is also slow to DC FC even at low SoC if the battery's too cold. I learned that the hard way a few months ago.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RapmasterD
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2017

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:37 pm

Thank you for this additional information!

cwerdna
Posts: 11303
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Buy my leased 2017 SV before end of July?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:31 pm

BTW, the below are my too cold and not quite warm enough battery DC FC experiences w/Bolt:
viewtopic.php?p=581197#p581197
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=25212&p=582224&hilit=warm#p582224

Lesson learned is to avoid using pay by the minute DC FCs when the battery is too cold.

I have hit 54 or 55 kW numerous times before and can definitely hit over 50 kW on some of the higher enough powered DrivetheARC chargers. I have used the exact unit in the video at https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/ a bunch of times when it was free. Love the free EV juice when I can get it.

I haven't had a chance to get https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/chevr ... ing.35146/ applied yet, but I hear it doesn't help much. :(

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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