CHAdeMO dead?

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jonemyers

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Messages
13
It looks like Nissan is moving away from CHAdeMO for its next EVs. It is probably a good idea. In the US Northwest it is the most unreliable way to DC quick charge. https://insideevs.com/news/433929/nissan-switches-to-ccs-in-us-europe/
 
Going forward the only new car sold with CHAdeMO in North America will be the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV of all things.

CHAdeMO is dead for consumers in NA, EU, and SK.
 
Well, Leaf and all current Teslas w/a $450 CHAdeMO also have CHAdeMO support.

But yes, I agree with your latter assertion. As much as I hate to say it, it will start dying in the US now...

"Thanks" VW (via their subsidiary Electrify America) for putting in the first nails in the coffin for CHAdeMO in the US. Nissan finished the job w/the Ariya.
 
As Ariya won't hit US shores until 2022 in any volume, Chademo will stay the course for the next 18 months. But post 2022, especially if Leaf is stopped (guessing it will continue until Ariya arrives), then new dual handle DC stations will slow, and as units start to get replaced, Chademo will start to go...guessing in the 2025 timeframe.

If there was ever a time to offer a Chademo to CCS upgrade/conversion as part of an aftermarket business, get working on it. There will be ~20K Leaf Plus units out there by then that will be market for an upgrade.

The only curiosity is whether Xpeng and Lexus still move forward with their Chademo cars for Europe this year.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
As Ariya won't hit US shores until 2022 in any volume, Chademo will stay the course for the next 18 months. But post 2022, especially if Leaf is stopped (guessing it will continue until Ariya arrives), then new dual handle DC stations will slow, and as units start to get replaced, Chademo will start to go...guessing in the 2025 timeframe.
I can easily see orders and plans for upcoming stations starting now beginning to change to skew more in favor of CCS in the US (ala EA). I doubt those installing stations will wait until 18 months to make such a change.

Just look at US sales volumes of Leaf right now.
 
Colorado's program is still dual chargepoint for the next 16 chargers I know coming this year (Salida, Pagosa Springs, Fairplay, Vail, Durango, Montrose, Estes Park, Wheat Ridge, Conifer, Greeley, Craig, Granby, Steamboat Springs, Dacono, Rifle and Wellington) beyond that I have no data. I would think Chademo will continue to be installed until two things happen (and they will happen so it is just when not if) one is Tesla gets a CCS adapter in the US OR dual chargers go CCS Tesla rather than CCS Chademo and the new LEAFs either switch to CCS or get discontinued. A PHEV can use L2 I do not think the Outlander will be significant for DCFC decisions.

I like Chademo for several reasons one of which is it is so simple, what can happen with CCS is you can have a negotiation issue which we sometimes see in Europe or on EA stations with some brands they did not test, I have never heard of this ever happening with Chademo. This is not a huge problem it only happens now and then. Another thing is Chademo is bidirectional going back many years. CCS has bidirectional coming (when??). I have experience with Chademo in Japan and US so a bit warm there but that is not a real consideration for others.

CCS takes up less space on the car rather than two separate ports so I get that attraction. CCS has clearly won the US I expect new Chademo installations to halt in 2 or 3 years at the most 5 years.
 
By far the biggest user of Chademo here in BC is Tesla. You can go lots of places charging at Superchargers. You can go EVERYWHERE charging at Chademo. Since the goverment is involved with siting of all fast chargers here I don’t think Chademo will be going anywhere soon....until Tesla makes a CCS adapter. Then all bets are off. Until then, getting rid of Chademo would take out the biggest player in the EV market place...Tesla. BC want lots of EV’s on the road. And the majority of EV’s on the road use Chademo, mostly because the majority of EV’s on the road are Tesla’s...followed by Leafs.
 
Of the hundred people I know who own Teslas (60+ at work alone), exactly 1 has a CHAdeMO adapter. And he got it back in 2014 before there was many SuperChargers and hasn't used it in years. I don't think Tesla sells many up here in the northeast.
 
FWIW, https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/chademo-charging-the-model-3.160882/page-7#post-4738710 paid off his CHAdeMO adapter price by getting enough free CHAdeMO juice. :)

From his other posts, it seems the free juice came from https://drivethearc.com/. They extended their free juice to CCS users recently. :D
 
webeleafowners said:
.until Tesla makes a CCS adapter. Then all bets are off.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf

They just need to offer it in North America if I am not mistaken. That and probably a software update to deal with the more complicated CCS protocol which again is already done in Europe.

I am happy to see Chademo still being installed if I am wrong though.
 
salyavin said:
webeleafowners said:
.until Tesla makes a CCS adapter. Then all bets are off.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf

They just need to offer it in North America if I am not mistaken. That and probably a software update to deal with the more complicated CCS protocol which again is already done in Europe.

I am happy to see Chademo still being installed if I am wrong though.

Yep. Tesla doesn't see the need yet to release a CCS connector in North America. I get it. Competition for the Supercharger network etc. Until that changes this is how we roll. And for what it's worth, a model 3 when over about 80 percent doesn't charge any slower with a chademo charger than on a Supercharger. Handy to know when doing a top up for a long stretch or whatever. Down around 20 or 25 percent however a Supercharge will squash in electrons at 250 kw. Starts to taper off after about 40 percent. This is assuming a V3 Supercharger. V2's are about 150 max under same conditions. But when on a Chademo like the one in the picture it doesn't matter if the Chademo station is a 100 KW Petrocan charger or a 50 KW BC Hydro charger as the fastest it will charge is around 48 to 49 KW. Woohoo. ;)

49853043187_835a0c0a44_c.jpg
 
Tesla's adapter is limited to 50kw so yes you will always max out in the 40s. Tesla could update it but probably don't feel like it is worth it.
 
salyavin said:
Tesla's adapter is limited to 50kw so yes you will always max out in the 40s. Tesla could update it but probably don't feel like it is worth it.

It’s already kinda bulky and heavy, but don’t get me wrong. It is a god send in this part of the continent. BC is closing in on 170 Chademo locations vs 18 or maybe 19 Supercharger locations. Not complaining, just wishing. :).
 
I have observed broken CCS connectors several times on EVgo units. The latches seem to break often which is scary because a high-voltage, high-current connector coming loose under load could be spectacular. I always considered the CHAdeMO connectors to be much more robust (like a welding connector) and was chagrinned when IEEE and SAE supported CCS (almost cancelled my IEEE membership because I disagreed with their endorsement of CCS and a couple other issues). Unfortunately, CHAdeMO will fade away in the USA--I am already seeing old stations in the Phoenix area being removed. One of the reasons I purchased the SL Plus last year was to have enough range (even with battery deterioration after several years) to satisfy my daily driving needs so that I would not need to depend upon DCQC. Since my car has bidirectional capability, I will consider a bidirectional CHAdeMO home unit if they ever become available at a somewhat reasonable price for backup power (or even peak shaving) and faster charging during off peak hours.
 
A bidirectional unit was due to be released this year in the US but it is quite pricey, I bet it gets pulled now. I had thought about it off and on but as it is a significant investment and locks one to Chademo I decided not to go for it when it gets released (if it gets released). By pricey I am saying 4000 dollars for a home charger, as it is a 20kw bidirectional DC charger I think that price is fair but at the same time not worth it due to chademo lock in and end of chademo even for Nissan.
 
salyavin said:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf

They just need to offer it in North America if I am not mistaken. That and probably a software update to deal with the more complicated CCS protocol which again is already done in Europe.
As I understand it (from reading threats at TMC where people know the details), it's not that simple. Tesla was already using a Type 2 Mennekes connector in EU, so the internal hardware of the charging port was different.
 
OK thank you for that, it may buy Chademo a little more time for new installs, I suspect Tesla will start making that in the future for the US though with Nissan going CCS.
 
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